[SOLVED] Project to replace CY7C64613 in the ICD2

[folks]

Awesome, I'll check out the request forms on the websites.

I know I need a programmer to do my 4550 and 778, I was basically wondering if there is a way that I could program them without a PIC?
I have seen a schematic with 2 transistors with an RS232 connector that did not need a PIC, but I read that it did not work well.
So is there a way to program without a chip that is already programmed?

Spork

I used this JDM to program my ICD2 (16f877A and 18f4550) along with software WinPic800 and works OK.

All the diodes (ecepcion zeners) are 1n4148
Transistors are 2n2222

WINPIC800:

 

[nvha]

JDM programmer is very good bts I can't use for 16F917.

 

[vsmGuy]

Re: Potyo's ICD2 clone most popular ?

Hey!

Anyone wants BL010101 disassembled?

Here is the reverse engennering of BL010101. It's more than an output of disassembler.

If it's possible, I'll recode it in C with HI-TECH.

sergio,

what you are doing is excellent ! I wonder why no one else noticed..

But one thing that we have to do is annotate the C code with the ASM very closely so that we don't loose track of the code if Microchip updates the firmware.

Keep the work going !

Added after 8 minutes:

It looks like Potyo's ICD2 clone most popular ?

@Potyo

Have you updated the schematics/PCB to reflect the orientation of Q4 ?

Also, is the 0.47 ohms a standard value ? Can't we change the resistor values across the MC34063A to use more standard values ? I am having hard time locating this resistor.

And what type the inductor needs to be ? I have the axial types (looks like 1/4th watt resistors).. will those do or do we need power inductors (ferrite core?)

 

[supersonicPM]

ok guys , i'm just about to put everything to garbage , !!! anybody here has been able to make the crazyduck pcb to work ??? i did a second board ,and did inspect for any short , board is perfect , but still , it is recognise once a million and cannot reprogram os ever !!! i'm using both hex files that came in his rar archuve , i trid others too but no success !!!

I think that 2x100uF i POTYO (on +5V bus) are too BIG to be handled with USB port. I've builded it with 10uF (never tried with 100uF)

Maby this could be problem, cause when You plug in ICD2 Clone into PC it comsume huge currnet while charging 2x100uF to 5V. The USB port has protection for about 100mA and could be turned off or latchuped.

The board has enough 100nF, so decrease 100uF to 10uF.

Decrese LED current consumption using 1k.

Also, findout in USB specification what is the maximum capacitive load ( I think that is 1uF, but not for sure)

Best Regards,
supersonicPM

 

[vsmGuy]

Is Potyo not available recently ?

 

[sergio_lindau]

If it's possible, I'll recode it in C with HI-TECH.

But one thing that we have to do is annotate the C code with the ASM very closely so that we don't loose track of the code if Microchip updates the firmware.

Hi vsmGuy.

I'm working on reverse engennering of ICD2 operating system files. If I can identify the jumps of OS to bootloader (I think that's only one entry point from OS to BL) then I'll be able to do it whitout loss of compatibility whit fucture firmware of Microchip.

I think that Microchip preserve this entrypoints in BL to maintain compatibility with old versions of ICD2 bootloaders.

The load hex command just takes the hex records and writes the data to the program memory 2 bytes at a time. It checks for different errors including the range of address. Ap. to avoid stepping into the BL program. This confirms that the BL is allways resident at the 877.

As you can see in BL010101.ASM the BL region cannot be programmed using BL protocol. But if Microchip whishes upgrade BL then it can download an OS that use another protocol to program BL region. The last affirmation of albert22 can be false.

If BL can be updated but entry points from OS (and some other little things) are preserved across updates the C translation can be made whitout incompatibilities. A parallel development of bootloader can be made!

But before all of this I'll disassemble 4550 firmware because my ICD2 doesn't work!

 

[vsmGuy]

@sergio_lindau

Your ICD2 is not working ? What design you use ?

 

[sergio_lindau]

I'm using PiCS design with some modifications (see my post on page 37 of this thread).

I already think about supersonicPM considerations.

I think that 2x100uF i POTYO (on +5V bus) are too BIG to be handled with USB port. I've builded it with 10uF (never tried with 100uF)

Maby this could be problem, cause when You plug in ICD2 Clone into PC it comsume huge currnet while charging 2x100uF to 5V. The USB port has protection for about 100mA and could be turned off or latchuped.

The board has enough 100nF, so decrease 100uF to 10uF.

Decrese LED current consumption using 1k.

Also, findout in USB specification what is the maximum capacitive load ( I think that is 1uF, but not for sure)

To solve it (if it's a problem) I enable the power-up timer on 4550

Hey PiCS, Potyo!

What did you think about it?

 

[M3Michi]

Also, findout in USB specification what is the maximum capacitive load ( I think that is 1uF, but not for sure)

Best Regards,
supersonicPM

As far i remember it is 10uF. And what you say make much sense here. There was a topic on Microchip forums about that too. It seems that USB ports on some Motherboards are weaker then others. Basically if your device enumerates when you reboot the PC with the device plugged in , but it don't enumerate when you "hotplug" it in. It's most likely consuming too much current during enumeration.

Btw. anyone know if it's better to choose a electrolyte or tantalum capacitor ?

 

[vsmGuy]

Tantalums are definitely better for decoupling.

Added after 9 minutes:

Is the 0.47 ohms a standard value ? Can't we change the resistor values across the MC34063A to use more standard (higher) values ? I am having hard time locating this resistor.

And what type the inductor needs to be ? I have the axial types (looks like 1/4th watt resistors).. will those do or do we need power inductors (ferrite core? toroid type ?)

I have some 100uH toroids.. will those do ?

 

[supersonicPM]

To solve it (if it's a problem) I enable the power-up timer on 4550

The problem isn't in initialisation of PIC18F4550, but in motherboard, so power-up timer won't work

Regards,
supersonicPM

 

[TESKAn]

Is the 0.47 ohms a standard value ? Can't we change the resistor values across the MC34063A to use more standard (higher) values ? I am having hard time locating this resistor.

And what type the inductor needs to be ? I have the axial types (looks like 1/4th watt resistors).. will those do or do we need power inductors (ferrite core? toroid type ?)

20k and 2k2 must be the same - they are feedback resistora and if you change them, you allso change output voltage.
As for the inductor, the one connected between pins 7 and 1 must be a ferrite core or toroid - i use a toroid from an old ATX PSU with 38 turns of wire - it works fine.

And i have allso been working on my own version for programming 3v3 PICs. I've attached a schematic. It works well, tested with PIC24H and 16f917. It uses very simple level translators so should work with any voltage from i'd say about 1V...


I've read some have trouble with mplab recognizing their ICD2 clone for the first time, even if windows detects it. Solution is to manually load OS for ICD, i guess MPLAB won't do it automatically when you use it for the first time.

 

[sergio_lindau]

20k and 2k2 must be the same - they are feedback resistora and if you change them, you allso change output voltage.

The output voltage is calculated using:

Vout=1.25*(1+R1/R2)

if R1=20K and R2=2K2 then Vout=12,6V.

This values can be manipulated to obtain Vout between 12,5V an 13,5V.

R1=18K and R2=2K solve your problem? (I never see a 2K resistor but i know that it exist )

You can substitute R1 and R2 with a trimpot and set Vout (you don't need any meter to calibrate. MPLAB show the Vpp in Programmer Settings menu/ Status tab or Power tab)

 

[bbtjacking]

is possible send large foto of this clone ??

 

[folks]

I think that 2x100uF i POTYO (on +5V bus) are too BIG to be handled with USB port. I've builded it with 10uF (never tried with 100uF)

Maby this could be problem, cause when You plug in ICD2 Clone into PC it comsume huge currnet while charging 2x100uF to 5V. The USB port has protection for about 100mA and could be turned off or latchuped.

The board has enough 100nF, so decrease 100uF to 10uF.

Decrese LED current consumption using 1k.

Also, findout in USB specification what is the maximum capacitive load ( I think that is 1uF, but not for sure)

Best Regards,
supersonicPM

From USB Specification:

As a safety precaution, hubs must be able to detect an over-current condition,
which occurs when the current used by the total of all devices attached
to the hub exceeds a preset value. When the port circuits on a hub detect an
over-current condition, they limit the current at the port and the hub
informs the host of the problem. Windows warns the user when a device
exceeds the current limit of its hub port.

The USB 2.0 specification says only that the current that triggers the
over-current actions must be less than 5 amperes. To allow for transient currents,
the over-current value should be greater than the total of the maximum
allowed currents for the devices. In the worst case, seven high-power,
bus-powered downstream devices can legally draw up to 3.5 amperes. So a
supply for a self-powered hub with up to seven downstream ports would
provide much less than 5 amperes at all times unless something goes very
wrong.
The USB specification allows a device to draw larger inrush currents when it
attaches to the bus. This current is typically provided by the stored energy in
a capacitor that is downstream from the over-current protection circuits so
the protection circuits don’t see the inrush current. If the inrush current is
too large, the device will fail the USB-IF’s compliance tests.

 

[abidr]

I have made and used many ICD2 clones but nut shell is each one has some problems, do you think it is really worth it to spend time in finding components, making schematics, layouts and PCBs and finding at the end of the day that it has got problems compared to 150$ spend on an ICD2 from microchip?

 

[supersonicPM]

for folks:

yes, but that is for extern-powered USB Hub
for USB powered directly from PC as somebody said 10uF is limit

Regards

 

[TESKAn]

abidr, compare 150$ for an original to 25$ you spend on components for home - made ICD2 (if you asmple the two PICs) - and in my case the clone works well - took me about a week, a couple of hours a day to make the schematic, the board, put it all together and make it work.
At the end it all comes down to what do you use your ICD2 for - if you work in any serious company, 150$ is not much. But if you just want to make a small home project, buying ICD2 is a waste of money.

 

[abidr]

in my case the clone works well - took me about a week, a couple of hours a day to make the schematic, the board, put it all together and make it work.

Teskan thanks, I feel happy that atleast someone has a problem free ICD2 Clone and I was wondering which clone did u make?
LOTHAR, NEBADJE, etc?
No need to sample anything already have enough invenotry (bought one) including PIC16F876 though expensive (8$ a chip)

 

[MPi]

This is my potyo2 ICD clone. I planed PCB and made that in company. It works perfectly. Thanks potyo.
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The new variant (Potyo2 rev1) visible .