simulate interconnect via mwo extraction

[Greenhill]

site:edaboard.com bonding wire

Dear All,

I would like to see how the wire bonding of the interconnection contribute to S11 and S21.I have the circuit file in dxf.Is it possible that i load it in momentum?( or other simulation tools is more suitable?) and connect it with other circuit using wire bonding?

Anyone have experience of doing so?Is it hard?

Thanks,
Greenhill

 

[e_m_c]

bond wire model in ads

Could you please demonstrate the problem more detailed - show us some picture of bonding of interconnection?

 

[Greenhill]

awr microwave office bondwire

HI E_M_C,

Thanks for your response.
Actually for simulate bonding(number of bonds,bonding angle etc) maybe i just need 2 box as thin film and see the difference.

Is it possible to simulate thin film in ads?momentum?or there must be a 3d simulation tools?

Do u know how to import file(dxf) ...

Thanks

 

[Manjunatha_hv]

wire bond simulation

Hello Greenhill,

Use AWR Microwave Office (MWO) which has very good bondwire circuit model & it is very good upto 20 GHz...
You can co-simulate with your DXF file in EM simulator (EMSight) & bondwiremodels in Circuit schematic editor for accurate analysis...

attached are the very good examples...



---manju---

 

[Greenhill]

Re: simulate wire bonding

HI Manju,

The example that u show does have a connection with wire bonding?
May i know is the bond wire example of awr is what devices?
Bond wire in circuit model means uses resistor inductor and capacitor ?equivalent circuit model?

 

[Manjunatha_hv]

Re: simulate wire bonding

Hello Greenhill,

Here are the details from help menu...
BWIRES models a collection of metallic round bonding wires (bond wires) made of linear segments each, and arranged above a conducting ground plane. Segments that comprise a wire are coplanar and the plane they belong to is assumed to be orthogonal to the ground plane. The actual smooth contour of a bonding wire is approximated by three or four linear segments and parameters that define orientation of segments are selected in compliance with standard EIA/JEDEC Standard No.59.

it is based on em model & its equivalent ckt is complex...& is attached...
Additional info;
• Coupled bondwire model – em based model
– Multi-tiered packaging supported
– Each bondwire can have its own loop profile
– Support for encapsulating dielectric
– Tunable
• Dynamic model
– 1 symbol with number of wires as a value
– Automatically reconfigures itself when you change number of wires
• Layout-driven bonding diagrams
– Don’t have to enter big matrices of (x,y) data

Their ara couple of examples available in installation folder BWIRES2_Example.emp, etc...

---manju---

 

[Greenhill]

Re: simulate wire bonding

Hi All,

Do anyone know any other simulation tools of wire bonding other than awr?
Any other examples that is provided?

Manju,
Is awr provide accurate simulations?

Thanks....

 

[e_m_c]

simulate wire bonding

I would try to use 3D simulation software for such modeling. Actually I never had simulated such problems, so this discussion is very iteresting for me. Is it possible to see circuit layout (or have directly DXF), have dielectric substrate parameters and frequencies range?

 

[Greenhill]

Re: simulate wire bonding

HI All,

Do anyone knows whether emds can accept macro code as in HFSS?

Thanks..

 

[ZincBear]

Re: simulate wire bonding

Have you considered using Koen's bondwire model in ADS? It allows you to define the structure of your bondwire, and the lengths of the various segments. Additionally, it allows definition of the diameter of your bondwire.

Alternatively, HFSS allows an EM simulation of the required bondwire. Being a 3D simulator also implies it is a little more complex as you will need to draw the entire structure.

 

[Greenhill]

Re: simulate wire bonding

Hi ZincBear,

I never heard of Koen's bondwire model in ADS,may i know where to find it?Is it example?

Besides,do u have experience using macro language in HFSS?

 

[ZincBear]

Re: simulate wire bonding

Hey Greenhill,

Its not an example, but rather a bondwire simulation tool found in the schematic simulator. I have attached a screen shot to help you locate it.

I hope this will help.

Regarding Macros in HFSS, i am sorry i am not familiar with that. However, i have done bondwire simulations in HFSS before. It works as a good guideline, but is not absolute. Afterall, the actual bondwire can turn out to be very different in the actual product.

 

[jian]

Re: simulate wire bonding

Hi:

Using a simple wire bond circuit model may be able to give some rough estimate on the self L of the wire bond. However, there is much going on there. There are storng coupling between the wire bonds (see attached picture). You should try to use full-wave EM solver for accurate modeling on it.

 

[yingying365days]

simulate wire bonding

How could I modeling the bond wire in Cadence? Anyone has idea, please help me! thank you!