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removing code protection pic micro

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orpheus

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pic code protect

hi all.

i need idea. some of my products are cloned. they stealed my hex code
from chips. i've used pic16f628-04/p chip. i need idea.

1- is the 16f682a is more secure than 16f628 i ask this question because the 16f84a is improved security feature.

2- i readed from this from there is a way to read hex file. power
monitoring so none of that pic devices are secure anymore ?
or just flash based pics are isnt secure ?. if ill use a rom based
pic like 16c622 can i prevent this power monitoring method

3- i dont need rb7 pin. this pin is important because this pin is related with programing. after i programmed chips. i can destroy this pin. is there idea to destroy that pin without giving any damage another pin or all the chip ?

someones talking about the some schematics and tools for cloning chips
in google . i didnt find can someone give me a link or more idea to read
code protected chips. so i can test my methods to be sure

thnx all
 

silvio

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pic code protection

So, want drilling some holes in your boat and kill yourself, just to be sure that someday, neighbour's boat will suffer, too ?.
Rather than ask: can someone give me a link or more idea to read
code protected chips. so i can test my methods to be sure

You can ask straight: I have a damn code protected chip that I want to reverse engineering. Can someone give me an ideea how to remove it. I had tried on well known referenced method on web, but none works. Can you help me guys ?
 

silvio

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code protect pic

I know the article and I'm confident that orpheus knew about it.

A small excerpt from there:
If you do not have a microscope you can do simple search exposing different part of the chip to UV light and observing the result. Once you have found them you can apply it to protected chip.
You should use opaque paper in order to protect Program memory from UV light.


Man !!!, you must be masochist enough to do that !
I don't want to talk about Sergei Skorobogatov skills. Maybe he finished his PhD thesis and now is working for USA army or some big microcontroller manufacturers company, helping them to fill the holes in security.

Bear in mind that what are you currently used, was developed by manufacturers for commercial fields, not military.
Thus the level of protection it's not so high as expected. Just because, you use your micro doing simple tasks, polling the level pins, some ordinary math, keyboard and display control....... Add to these your own options.
Remember, the padlock was not made for thief, but for honest peoples.
So, if a crazy guy develops overnight a briliant method in order to break the copy protection of microcontroller, that's don't bother too much the manufacturer as long as the attacked product don't falls into some proven secured one category.
Could be a bad advertising for that product, too. Especially when you compete with other manufacturers.
What I want to say it's that even manufacturers don't struggles enough against thiefs unless are forced to keep their brand name at high score rates.

Well, into FPGA and CPLD fields, things looks totally different. There, you got what you paid for. And IP cores protection worth-while. Because it's not the same playing with well known opcodes inside microcontroller, not matter at assembly level or C high level.
The effort spent for ASIC developments it's hundreds times much precious than for ordinary micro. That's why, worths to be more concerned about level of protection.

Do you still want an example of worth-while protection and reasons for choosing a product?
In ACTEL NEWSLETTER proACT spring 1999 issue on page 5 http://www.actel.com/company/press/1999pr/pr021699.html
ACTEL'S HIGH-SECURITY FPGA TECHNOLOGY SELECTED FOR 'TACT MILLENNIUM,' WORLD'S FIRST DIGITAL AMPLIFIER
The heart of the amplifier is the patented EQUIBIT PCM-to-PWM processing and output stage, developed by Toccata Technology, an independent Danish research team.
Just two Actel FPGAs (an A42MX09 and an A42MX16) were used to replace two 24-bit DSPs and two CPLDs running at over 90MHz

Can you try to imagine the price of such kind of amplifier ? Please allow me to spell it: 10.000$
Do you think that the danish company was serious concerned to a proven secure way to protect their valuable intellectual property ?.
Can compete your design with the above one ? Are you afraid that someone could still steal your ordinary hex code developed for some blinking LEDs ?

That's why I believe you are more concerned with reverse engineering of other peoples work rather than yours. And you mask your desire under this stupid request: so i can test my methods to be sure
You ask from us to tell you some methods to break the copy protection, giving you a link or more idea to read
code protected chips, so can test yours methods to be sure. To be sure of what ? If you can't do it, nobody can ? That's why I wrote about boats and suicide. Obvious if you can taste a black humour !

I didn't saw yet such kind of advertising on microcontroller manufaturers web site, especially placed on main page.

But actel are really concerned. That's why you can find on main page.
http://www.actel.com/products/rescenter/security/index.html

Happy programing.
Or should I say happy c_r_a_c_k_i_n_g !
 

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Fragrance

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breaking copy protection in microcontrollers

Hi,

I read the all, yes i agree with silvio, He is wasting his time and also the time of others. Stupid guy do not waste your time in these kind of stupid thing just try learn the code writting that,s the write way

the end of these kind of tries is ending up all thing with a rost or you
end with rost your all chip

regards
Fragrance
 

orpheus

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read code protected pic

hi guys.

ok. i'm not drilling my boat. i asked about known methods. not secrets to anyone. i sent many e-mail to microchip about code protection i asked
which micro is most secure and what they suggets to me. they never replied me strange. i think a big security hole on pic microcontrollers.
and some peoples crack these chips for a little moneys 100$ - 200$
so how can i protect myself. one guy talked about the ID bits related with code protection. do you have idea. dont be offensive to me. i'm just trying to get idea about the known crack methods and protect myself from them.
i know coding very well i finished more than 30 serious projest with these chips commercial projects. security systyems gps based car tracking system etc.

so please give your idea to improve code protection. try to reply my questions. is the destroying rb7 improve my code protection or is there
security different 16f628 and 16f628A ? is it realy related id bits with code
protection ?

i dont want to start a argue i just need idea to improve code protection.
thanks for the all replies.

regards.
cengiz
 

Fragrance

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remove code protect pic

Hi,

Ok friend do not frustated every lock have the key, it's not easy task to break the security of the pic as microchip described in his data sheet
if any body wnat to steel the code or want to erase the security bit chip is
also erased, if you see the programmer ( mean chip programmer)
a option called erse all that mean erase every thing code + security bit

and ID BIT AS WELL , IF YOU SET THE ID BIT THAT BLOCK THE INTERNAL PC COUNTER TO BE INCEREMNETED BY EXTERNAL CLOCK


SEE ALSO PROGRAMMING SPEC OF MCROCHIP AND DONOT WORY ABOUT THAT LOT PEOPLE DOING THERE WORK

REGARDS
fRAGRANCE
 

cadb0y

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code protection pic

So you say it not possible to remove security off pic?
 

Analyzer

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como ler uma pic com code protect

Hi,

If you really want to prevent read and copy chip then do not use programming pin, program chip and destroy this pin.You can pluck it with a tweezers.The better way to protect it.

Analyzer.
 

S

sick_man

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pic 12f675 protect code

dear dear dear

we have been over this countless times

and it always ends up with me saying
that you just model the chip as in what it does

if its an a/d function a modelr applications board
can easily detrmin function
such devices can be written too and read from by the hardware its self
and a logi analyzer in realtime
those in the know about a particular paradym
can write a small set of core based routines in a circle easy stuff

get wise and emulate a model of your source pic core

and if you use pic that you can peek then dont expect not too get a poke every so often
 

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