Welcome to EDAboard.com

Welcome to our site! EDAboard.com is an international Electronics Discussion Forum focused on EDA software, circuits, schematics, books, theory, papers, asic, pld, 8051, DSP, Network, RF, Analog Design, PCB, Service Manuals... and a whole lot more! To participate you need to register. Registration is free. Click here to register now.

how to make an electric arc

Status
Not open for further replies.

23ronnie11

Newbie level 6
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
11
Helped
0
Reputation
0
Reaction score
0
Trophy points
1,281
Activity points
1,351
hello

can anyone help me to make a powerful electric arc about 1cm long
It should be really powerful and need not be long
Is it better to use DC or AC
 
Last edited:

klystron

Advanced Member level 4
Joined
Jul 11, 2002
Messages
1,014
Helped
192
Reputation
384
Reaction score
180
Trophy points
1,343
Location
South Africa
Activity points
4,513
Build a Tesla coil, Jacobs ladder, a car ignition coil, the flash circuit of a disposable camera or electronics of a fly zap racket
 

chuckey

Advanced Member level 5
Joined
Dec 26, 2010
Messages
4,863
Helped
1,308
Reputation
2,622
Reaction score
1,283
Trophy points
1,393
Location
Southampton and holiday cottage in Wensleydale (UK
Activity points
31,695
DC gives you a more steady arc, although there is erosion of one of your electrodes. FWIW, the arc impedance is about .5 Ohms though a much higher voltage is required to strike the arc. I would Google "Tesla coils". It all depends on what you want to use the arc for.
Frank
 

23ronnie11

Newbie level 6
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
11
Helped
0
Reputation
0
Reaction score
0
Trophy points
1,281
Activity points
1,351
i need a continuous arc to heat up air .i just need a simple and effective way to make a small but powerful arc.
is high voltage required to make a powerful arc ..so what should i use a flyback transformer or a mot
 

klystron

Advanced Member level 4
Joined
Jul 11, 2002
Messages
1,014
Helped
192
Reputation
384
Reaction score
180
Trophy points
1,343
Location
South Africa
Activity points
4,513
Use a LM555 oscillator driving a power transistor with a car ignition coil as a collector load
 

FvM

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
49,143
Helped
14,384
Reputation
29,032
Reaction score
13,139
Trophy points
1,393
Location
Bochum, Germany
Activity points
283,247
To comment some previous posts, I think electrical arc isn't the same as a high voltage spark, as achievable with an ignition coil.

An electric arc is a plasma discharge maintained by the supplied power. The classical carbon arc lamp has been operated at about 30 to 60 V AC with currents of 10 to 100 A. You'll need a high current transformer with high leak inductance, e.g. a welding transformer. Some safety risks related to arc discharge should be considered:
- strong UV radiation, dangerous to eyes and unprotected skin
- generation of nitrouses gases and ozone
 

23ronnie11

Newbie level 6
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
11
Helped
0
Reputation
0
Reaction score
0
Trophy points
1,281
Activity points
1,351
I need a continuous arc not a spark .i need this arc to make an arc rocket so any suggestions .the problem with a tesla coil is that it is to big . i think a car ignition coil can only give a spark .Do you guys think i should use a flyback transformer or a mot .if you think the flyback is better can you suggest a good driver circuit
 

chuckey

Advanced Member level 5
Joined
Dec 26, 2010
Messages
4,863
Helped
1,308
Reputation
2,622
Reaction score
1,283
Trophy points
1,393
Location
Southampton and holiday cottage in Wensleydale (UK
Activity points
31,695
Tesla coils are only big because they need to be else the voltage they produce will flash between the turns of the coils. Using lower power and lower voltages would mitigate against the size. An oil filled ignition coil is a very good start because of the oil dielectric they can pack more voltage into a smaller space. You can also get them from car scrappers for loose change. In a car they only produce a spark because that what the driving circuit does.
FWIW Years ago I built an electronic ignition circuit to my own design and got the design wrong. The result was a continuos discharge that flashed across from the HT contact to the case of a ignition coil, a distance of about 50 mm.
Frank
 

23ronnie11

Newbie level 6
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
11
Helped
0
Reputation
0
Reaction score
0
Trophy points
1,281
Activity points
1,351
i may need kw power level .
please can you show that circuit (ignition coil) .can i adapt that for a flyback transformer though i don't need a 5cm long arc
 

FvM

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
49,143
Helped
14,384
Reputation
29,032
Reaction score
13,139
Trophy points
1,393
Location
Bochum, Germany
Activity points
283,247
Before discussing about circuits, some points should be clarified:
- What's the intended primary power source for the electric arc?
- How do you intend to ignnite it? As already mentioned, altough the operation voltage of the arc will be low (several 10 V), a high voltage source is required for ignition. Alternatively, it can be ignited by making the electrodes touch, as usual with arc welding or a classical carbon arc lamp.
 

atferrari

Full Member level 4
Joined
Jun 29, 2004
Messages
237
Helped
7
Reputation
14
Reaction score
3
Trophy points
1,298
Location
Buenos Aires - Argentina
Activity points
1,996
Search for...

I recall the film projectors used when I was a kid (is the system the same today?).

There were two carbon rods with the ends kept at a constant distance from each other. Never had the chance to see how it actually worked.

They generated LOT of heat.

Look also for the technology used for the big reflectors (WWII) to illuminate targets for gunnery. IIRC they used a similar principle. Searchlight or spotlights.
 
Last edited:

FvM

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
49,143
Helped
14,384
Reputation
29,032
Reaction score
13,139
Trophy points
1,393
Location
Bochum, Germany
Activity points
283,247
You are referring to carbon arc lamps. I already mentioned it. See this wikipedia article for the different techniques Arc lamp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Today's cinema projectors are exclusively using high pressure xenon arc lamps.

Carbon arc lamps usually have an electromagnetical mechanism that controls the electrode distance, keeping the current at a defined setpoint.
 

23ronnie11

Newbie level 6
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
11
Helped
0
Reputation
0
Reaction score
0
Trophy points
1,281
Activity points
1,351
i haven't thought about the power source .what do you suggest
an eliminator
or a battery
i don't think i will be able to make a contact after the rocket is made
 

23ronnie11

Newbie level 6
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
11
Helped
0
Reputation
0
Reaction score
0
Trophy points
1,281
Activity points
1,351
i am not sure if i will need kw power .but if it is required what power source should i use and what should i use to get the arc
 

FvM

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
49,143
Helped
14,384
Reputation
29,032
Reaction score
13,139
Trophy points
1,393
Location
Bochum, Germany
Activity points
283,247
You didn't clarify your intentions exactly. Some comments make me think, that you want to actually fly an arc rocket. I assume that it can't work because no available electrical power source has the energy density (in terms of E/m) to generate a sufficient thrust. But it's just a guess.

Moving a vehicle by an arc rocket propulsion for demonstration purposes may be possible. For a mobile device, super capacitors offer the highest specific power in a 0.1 to 10 sec time scale, for longer experiment duration, NiMH or Li-Ion battery would be preferable.
 

23ronnie11

Newbie level 6
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
11
Helped
0
Reputation
0
Reaction score
0
Trophy points
1,281
Activity points
1,351
i don't want to fly the rocket i just want make a working model that produces a small thrust
 

FvM

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
49,143
Helped
14,384
Reputation
29,032
Reaction score
13,139
Trophy points
1,393
Location
Bochum, Germany
Activity points
283,247
i don't want to fly the rocket
That's good. I already suggested a standard arc welding transformer as power source. It would require an additional high voltage ignition circuit, if you can't ignite the arc by shorting the electrodes. With a battery or supercap, an inverter is needed.

But I guess, you should start with the thermodynamical design. It should clarify the arc power demand.
 

23ronnie11

Newbie level 6
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
11
Helped
0
Reputation
0
Reaction score
0
Trophy points
1,281
Activity points
1,351
the problem is that i don't have an arc welding transformer i don't think i will be able to get one .but i can get a mot of a flyback transformer .Do you think heating the gas before going to the electrodes make it easier to make the arc
 

Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Part and Inventory Search

Welcome to EDABoard.com

Sponsor

Top