which PIC programmer to buy?

[maark6000]

August 2014... time to update this.

So I'm learning to code the Microchip PIC chips... and I'm at the point where I want to buy a programmer. I'm using MPLAB X on a MacBook Pro. Which Programmer do I get?

I see all kinds of horror stories about the PicKit 3... issues with not enough USB power to program the chips, also issues with having to use a separate header board to target somethingerother...

Also many complaints from PicKit 2 owners... seems like it's no longer supported in MPLAB X.

I'm leaning ICD 3. What do you all think?

Thanks!

 

[horace1]

over the years have used a number of programmers these days I use an ICD3 except when flashing many PCBs when a Pickit3 is used

 

[maark6000]

Thanks Horace. Why do you use the PicKit 3 for PCB's over the ICD3, can the ICD3 not program in situ?

Also, I notice that when you buy the ICD3 it often comes as a "kit" with other accessories like an evaluation board. Is that something I should get as well?

THanks.

 

[horace1]

Thanks Horace. Why do you use the PicKit 3 for PCB's over the ICD3, can the ICD3 not program in situ?

Also, I notice that when you buy the ICD3 it often comes as a "kit" with other accessories like an evaluation board. Is that something I should get as well?

THanks.

When developing code I use an ICD3
we use a Pickit3 when we have a large number of new PCB boards to program - the HEX can be loaded into the Pickit3 and one one just has to plug it into the PCB programming header and push a button to program each board

in terms of evaluation boards the Explorer is versatile
https://www.microchip.com/Developmenttools/ProductDetails.aspx?PartNO=DM240001

it has a range on PIMs (plug in modules supporting various PIC24s, dsPICs and PIC32s) and daughter boards

for small projects the Microstick is useful
https://www.microchip.com/DevelopmentTools/Listing.aspx?CatID=54&CatText=Microstick Kits

it has an onboard programmer and header to plug into a prototype board for your own circuits

there are also plenty of specialist boards, e.g. the Bytronic PIC24 mechatronics trainer
**broken link removed**

 

[maark6000]

Thanks for the response. I think I'm going to wait on the accessories until I figure out exactly what they do and how I'll use them... they can be expensive. One thing that puzzles me is that with the PicKit3 and the ICD3... you have to have some other 'device' to place the actual chip in order for it to connect to either programmer. Why do you think they do that? I guess I'm used to the old EPROM burners that had a ZIF socket built right into them. So, I'm thinking about getting these:

**broken link removed**

It just seems so odd to have to buy some third party thing off ebay in order to download your program to the chip. I know that many people just build the circuit the chip will go into with headers so they can just put the chip in there and download to it directly... but it still just feels so strange to me.

 

[horace1]

many small devboards and starter kits come with on board programmers, e.g.
https://www.microchip.com/Developmenttools/ProductDetails.aspx?PartNO=DM330013-2
https://www.microchip.com/Developmenttools/ProductDetails.aspx?PartNO=DM330013

our own PCBs don't have on board programmers so we use ICD3 or Pickit3

 

[maark6000]

Interesting. So, let me get this straight. With the Microstick I and II, I wouldn't need a PicKit 3 to download my hex code into the chip? Am I interpreting what "Integrated USB programmer / debugger – No external debugger required" means? I just plug the Microstick directly into my USB port, and download the code. I don't recall seeing in MPLAB X an option for the Microstick when going thru the initial set-up wizard.

What about with smaller chips, like the PIC 10, 12, & 16 series? I will probably start with 8-bit chips, like the PIC16F84A.

By the way, thank you so much for helping me out with this... it's pretty confusing stuff for the beginner / hobbyist.

 

[horace1]

Interesting. So, let me get this straight. With the Microstick I and II, I wouldn't need a PicKit 3 to download my hex code into the chip? Am I interpreting what "Integrated USB programmer / debugger – No external debugger required" means? I just plug the Microstick directly into my USB port, and download the code. I don't recall seeing in MPLAB X an option for the Microstick when going thru the initial set-up wizard.

What about with smaller chips, like the PIC 10, 12, & 16 series? I will probably start with 8-bit chips, like the PIC16F84A.

By the way, thank you so much for helping me out with this... it's pretty confusing stuff for the beginner / hobbyist.

yes, the 'starter kits' such as the Microstick don't need an external programmer
when you open the project in MPLABX and attempt to run it should open a window so

and you click on the kit for the device - in this case the Microstick

for starter kits (including PIC16) see
https://www.microchipdirect.com/ProductDetails.aspx?Category=Starter Kits&treeid=6

 

[maark6000]

Okay... I'm beginning to figure this out. I do have one last question though. On ebay... some guy named j1sys sells these programmer boards with jumpers, you figure out which jumpers to hook up according to what your chip will need to be programmed, connect that whole rig to the PK3... and you're theoretically off and running.

However, in digging around in the DIY programmer board literature... it seems like in order to program the chip, one of the voltage sources needs to be ~13 V. Correct me if I'm wrong, but USB is only 4 V. So my question is how does the PK3 supply the necessary voltage for these chips to be programmed?

Again, you rule for helping me out on this.

 

[horace1]

no idea - I always use program PCBs using an ICD3, Pickit 3 or onboard programmers

rather than starting with PIC16 I would recommend PIC24 using something like the Microstick II
https://uk.farnell.com/microchip/dm330013-2/microstick-ii-for-dspic33-pic24f/dp/2070365

you get a PIC24 and a dsPIC, onboard programmer and header to plug into prototype boards for you own circuits - we use these for student projects - cost £20 in UK and if they get damaged cheap enough to throw away

 

[hexreader]

how does the PK3 supply the necessary voltage for these chips to be programmed?

The user guide contains a schematic. Bottom left of page two of the schematic shows the Vpp circuitry.
Vpp_pump signal is a PWM signal which the PICkit3 U1 micro-controller adjusts to give the correct analogue sample measured from Vpp_FBACK signal.
The other circuitry performs amplifier, charge pump and switch functions to produce the correct Vpp voltage when needed.

 

[maark6000]

OK... that's kind of what I thought, and I assume the same goes with the ICD3?

 

[wp100]

Hi,

The Pk2 is quiet stable and cost very little, its only drawback is that it does not support all the very latest chips.

However as you say you want to start with the virtually obselete 84A, which should be avoided, (use a compatible 16F628A or 16F88) then a PK2 should keep you happy for a long while.

Considered building your own diy PK2 ? countless diy plans in this forum...

 

[maark6000]

Thanks for the input WP100, something to consider. The reason I'm starting with the F84A is because I'm working out of a book written in 2009... Eons ago!! I will look at other chips as you suggested.

So why the PK2 over the PK3? The PK2 is no longer supported by MPLAB X. I've seen a lot of complaints on the 'net that seem to stem from the fact that Microchip is no longer supporting that programmer. I would build my own programmer... but considering I've already got a million projects I want to build... I don't have much desire to add one more. Also, considering I barely understand how these things work in the first place... i might take the easy route and just buy a programmer and be done with it.

 

[wp100]

Thanks for the input WP100, something to consider. The reason I'm starting with the F84A is because I'm working out of a book written in 2009... Eons ago!! I will look at other chips as you suggested.

So why the PK2 over the PK3? The PK2 is no longer supported by MPLAB X. I've seen a lot of complaints on the 'net that seem to stem from the fact that Microchip is no longer supporting that programmer. I would build my own programmer... but considering I've already got a million projects I want to build... I don't have much desire to add one more. Also, considering I barely understand how these things work in the first place... i might take the easy route and just buy a programmer and be done with it.

Hi,

Yes you are right about the Pk2 no longer being supported by MPlabX though it was originally there, though I still use MPlabIDE as X does seem to drive some serious programmers to distraction from what I read from their entries; however its hard to judge how good or bad it really is from a few folks moans out of the many thoudands who do use it ok ..?

A PK3 cost GBP £36 or the ICD3 at £162 so for the hobbyist, it seems a clear choice to me.
You can also buy the PK3 as the Debug Express with a little dev board included at £55 but be aware it is physically very small and the 18F chip is soldered in so would be of little use to get you going imho.
Easy enough to knock up your own boards/breadboards etc

You can buy cheaper Pk3s from the far east /ebay though would suggest you buy direct from places like Farnels/Element14 etc so you have a quick and easy path to replacement should anything fail.

As for your 84A book, if its a read that you find you can follow then surely do stick with it, you can still get the 84A, though as you will soon find, with just a couple of simple code changes, its very easy to transfer the code to run on a more modern 18 pin chip like the 16F88 which has many improvements, these include onboard oscillator so no external crystal needed, true Analogue inputs, PWM and SPI commuincations.