Welcome to EDAboard.com

Welcome to our site! EDAboard.com is an international Electronic Discussion Forum focused on EDA software, circuits, schematics, books, theory, papers, asic, pld, 8051, DSP, Network, RF, Analog Design, PCB, Service Manuals... and a whole lot more! To participate you need to register. Registration is free. Click here to register now.

Register Log in

Phase margin test method in single-ended amplifier design

Status
Not open for further replies.

14425324

Newbie level 4
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
7
Helped
0
Reputation
0
Reaction score
0
Trophy points
1,281
Activity points
1,337
phase margin test

Hi,does anybody can tell me how to get PM value in single-ended amlifier design?
thank you very much!
 

LvW

Advanced Member level 5
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
5,835
Helped
1,740
Reputation
3,484
Reaction score
1,340
Trophy points
1,393
Location
Germany
Activity points
39,236
phase margin

14425324 said:
Hi,does anybody can tell me how to get PM value in single-ended amlifier design?
thank you very much!
There is a fixed definition of phase margin, which is to be applied to all circuits and systems with feedback. That means that there is no specialized procedure for some types of amplifiers.
 

14425324

Newbie level 4
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
7
Helped
0
Reputation
0
Reaction score
0
Trophy points
1,281
Activity points
1,337
bias voltage vs phase margin

LvW said:
14425324 said:
Hi,does anybody can tell me how to get PM value in single-ended amlifier design?
thank you very much!
There is a fixed definition of phase margin, which is to be applied to all circuits and systems with feedback. That means that there is no specialized procedure for some types of amplifiers.
Thank you very much!
I konw the definition, but how to get a simulate result?
When we want do to that, how to decide CM voltage and bias voltage ?
 

LvW

Advanced Member level 5
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
5,835
Helped
1,740
Reputation
3,484
Reaction score
1,340
Trophy points
1,393
Location
Germany
Activity points
39,236
phase margin amplifier

14425324 said:
Thank you very much!
I konw the definition, but how to get a simulate result?
When we want do to that, how to decide CM voltage and bias voltage ?
The simulation, of course, has to follow the definition - that means to simulate the loop gain and to determine the phase at the unity gain frequency.
You are right, that the bias voltage may cause some problems by opening the loop.
However, there are some specific methods which can be used to avoid these problems (LC-method, ac-series excitation, Middlebrook procedure,....).
It depends on your circuitry.
 

14425324

Newbie level 4
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
7
Helped
0
Reputation
0
Reaction score
0
Trophy points
1,281
Activity points
1,337
single ended amplifier

LvW said:
14425324 said:
Thank you very much!
I konw the definition, but how to get a simulate result?
When we want do to that, how to decide CM voltage and bias voltage ?
The simulation, of course, has to follow the definition - that means to simulate the loop gain and to determine the phase at the unity gain frequency.
You are right, that the bias voltage may cause some problems by opening the loop.
However, there are some specific methods which can be used to avoid these problems (LC-method, ac-series excitation, Middlebrook procedure,....).
It depends on your circuitry.
thanks very much!
I am sorry I am a beginner in circuit design, and I did not find any informatin about the methods you mentioned(LC-method, ac-series excitation, Middlebrook procedure,....) by google. Could you recommand me some paper, books or WEB about that?
ps: My circuit is a folded-cascode op amp used as unit gain buffer.
 

LvW

Advanced Member level 5
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
5,835
Helped
1,740
Reputation
3,484
Reaction score
1,340
Trophy points
1,393
Location
Germany
Activity points
39,236
design op amp phase margin

14425324 said:
I am sorry I am a beginner in circuit design, and I did not find any informatin about the methods you mentioned(LC-method, ac-series excitation, Middlebrook procedure,....) by google. Could you recommand me some paper, books or WEB about that?
ps: My circuit is a folded-cascode op amp used as unit gain buffer.
OK, you speak about an opamp with a rather low output impedance, right ?
And the opamp is connected as a unity gain buffer with 100% feedback.
In this case, I propose to open the feedback loop and to place an ac voltage source of 1V between the negative opamp input and the opamp output. The positive input has to be grounded. After the ac analysis the voltage ratio V(out)/V(in) is identical to the open loop gain. That the method of ac series excitation.
In addition, you can try the second method: close the feedback loop with a very large inductor (100H) to hold a proper bias point. Ground the positive input and inject an ac test signal of 1V via a very large capacitor (100F) into the neg. opamp input.
The ac signal at the opamp output is identical to the loop gain.
Finally, determine the phase at the loop gain unity gain bandwidth and check how far it is from 360 deg. Thus you have the phase margin. OK ?
 

14425324

Newbie level 4
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
7
Helped
0
Reputation
0
Reaction score
0
Trophy points
1,281
Activity points
1,337
how to test phase margin

LvW said:
14425324 said:
I am sorry I am a beginner in circuit design, and I did not find any informatin about the methods you mentioned(LC-method, ac-series excitation, Middlebrook procedure,....) by google. Could you recommand me some paper, books or WEB about that?
ps: My circuit is a folded-cascode op amp used as unit gain buffer.
OK, you speak about an opamp with a rather low output impedance, right ?
And the opamp is connected as a unity gain buffer with 100% feedback.
In this case, I propose to open the feedback loop and to place an ac voltage source of 1V between the negative opamp input and the opamp output. The positive input has to be grounded. After the ac analysis the voltage ratio V(out)/V(in) is identical to the open loop gain. That the method of ac series excitation.
In addition, you can try the second method: close the feedback loop with a very large inductor (100H) to hold a proper bias point. Ground the positive input and inject an ac test signal of 1V via a very large capacitor (100F) into the neg. opamp input.
The ac signal at the opamp output is identical to the loop gain.
Finally, determine the phase at the loop gain unity gain bandwidth and check how far it is from 360 deg. Thus you have the phase margin. OK ?
thank you for your helpful explanation!:D
 

Status
Not open for further replies.

Part and Inventory Search

Welcome to EDABoard.com

Sponsor

Top