Oil level sensor: ultrasonic, ir or other?

[tgotwalt1158]

Digi say page not found for that link, maybe bad clipboard data.

View attachment 77562

check now, I have edited the link!

 

[tpetar]

My friend I think that you mix this sensor with some other, this sensor cannot be used for fuel measuring :


**broken link removed**

**broken link removed**



This sensor with fuel can give us astronaut farmer without rocket. :wink:
"Astronaut Farmer" 2006 movie.

 

[tgotwalt1158]

My friend I think that you mix this sensor with some other, this sensor cannot be used for fuel measuring :


**broken link removed**

**broken link removed**



This sensor with fuel can give us astronaut farmer without rocket. :wink:
"Astronaut Farmer" 2006 movie.

Sorry I was working on several posts this is why mixup occured, the correct sensor is :
models Sonix-50 and Sonix-60, and the link is :
**broken link removed**

 

[elvan121]

Thanks for the answers, but actually I was looking for some cheaper solutions...
the sonix 40, which is the cheaper solution from them, is selled for more than 800$!!

 

[tpetar]

My friend for 800USD you can pay worker to measure manualy level in tank every day.

 

[BradtheRad]

The diagram shows a possible way to detect distance to liquid surface by sensing reflected light.

The light intensity will be proportional to the square of the distance. That's the theory anyway.

 

[tpetar]

Elvan121 do you have insurance of your property where is that tank located ?

Some my thinking is, if you want to be safe buy some certified, tested and dedicated sensor for this purpose, dont play with this, this is last thing with which you want to play in your house yard.

Consult some company in your local for this, just consult.

Electrostatic electricity can be very dangerous. You cant use any sensor for your above ground tank. Fuel tank should be under ground because many things.

We need you on this forum, we dont need Elvan astronaut.

 

[D.A.(Tony)Stewart]

Accurate proximity sensors increase in cost in a power function with distance.. e.g. 1cm=$2, 10cm =$20, 100cm=$200 etc. 400cm=$2000, etc.....

One cheap solution uses IR remote controls have a good range but cannot detect distance unless your battery gets weak. Calibrating a voltage regulator to determine the threshold of a signal may be useful to measure the voltage vs distance of the emitter, while the detector is on a clean constant voltage. This would be over a small range of voltages similar to a 2AA batteries going from 3.6 to 2.6V ( new to old) and not necessarily linear. Unfortunately this may not work well as the lens gets dirty.

So a better solution might use a staircase of pulses and count the number of pulses received into a tachometer. Again not linear but has a wide effective range and AGC can compensate for variation in sensor loss due to oil vapours on lens while adjusting the receiver gain to the peak pulse and holding the gain over the interval of the sweep. More complicated but not really expensive to make but perhaps expensive to design....



Time interval IR proximity chips are cheap ($4) up to 200mm and then get really expensive due to wide range of signal range.

The other thing is oil may be transparent to IR so UV or BLUE LED may be a better emitter.

- - -
OK scrap the LED solutions and consider a bass reflect speaker.. the resonant frequency changes with volume of air in the chamber. THerefore attach and air hose to the top of the tank to an externally mounted sealed speaker and measure the resonant frequency by a sweep tone coming from an MP3 file created on audacity or CoolEdit Pro. The voltage drop across the speaker will peak at resonant frequency of air in the oil tank. But this modification to your tank to affect your house insurance. (ha) so a float sensor from a car gas tank may be a possible solution.

You might go to a sewage tank firm and ask about honey pot height sensors which are around $30.

 

[electronicsbasecom]

Didn't read all post, just remember that I read about LLS — AF-20310 from https://www.fuelmetrix.com

 

[D.A.(Tony)Stewart]

IF one could make a sufficiently strong pair of electrodes suspended in the tank, a low voltage relaxation oscillator can measure the high of any fluid not exposed to air by the RC time constant and frequency of the oscillator. this could be retrofit using magnet wire such that the oil dielectric creates a variable capacitor. Then the capacitance could be calibrated against height and length of the cable adding a fixed capacitance as well. This could be retrofit inside the lid with a battery and push button or remote sensed. A fancier version to null out cable capacitance would have two identical twisted pairs of magnet wire and compare them in a bridge circuit to drive a relaxation oscillator to a tach cct. Cost < $10.

Here's is a cheap and dirty one on the web for measuring different caps.. just put the twisted pair there instead of the 1nF ..and switches cap and use a 1M to 10MΩ instead of switched resistor range control. THis is a relaxation oscillator with a simple tachometer cct. for measuring the height of the air inside the tank.. As the meter goes higher the consumption has gone up and the air lower capacitance produces a higher frequency. This can easily run from a 9V battery and a small cap 0.1uF to 1uF across the chip power on pin 14 is adequate to filter battery noise. Any 50uA analog meter can be converted to a volt meter shown (V) with a series resistor.

 

[tgotwalt1158]

Thanks for the answers, but actually I was looking for some cheaper solutions...
the sonix 40, which is the cheaper solution from them, is selled for more than 800$!!

The least expensive method is a pressure transmitter installed in a tee just below the tank (likely in the drain valve connection) that reads in Inches, Water Gage. You just have to post a conversion chart telling volume in gallons/liters whatever relative to the gage output. OR- if you have a functional code writer, you can convert the Inches, WC to Inches of Oil, if all you want is to know how full the tank is.

To make the installation TOTALLY "safe"- install the transmitter on top of a siphon loop like is used for steam gages with a riser that puts the transmitter above the tank. That way, the oil will only pressurize the air in the loop and riser and never reach the transmitter or its electronics and the transmitter will still generate a valid signal.

 

[tgotwalt1158]

Elvan121 do you have insurance of your property where is that tank located ?

Some my thinking is, if you want to be safe buy some certified, tested and dedicated sensor for this purpose, dont play with this, this is last thing with which you want to play in your house yard.

Consult some company in your local for this, just consult.


Electrostatic electricity can be very dangerous. You cant use any sensor for your above ground tank. Fuel tank should be under ground because many things.

We need you on this forum, we dont need Elvan astronaut.

Good suggestion! elvan121 please take it seriously, since safety comes first in all aspects.

 

[yura717]

Electrostatic electricity can be very dangerous.

He wants to use it with diesel fuel. That fuel is very stable ... you can put burning cigarette in fuel and nothing will happens

 

[tpetar]

He wants to use it with diesel fuel. That fuel is very stable ... you can put burning cigarette in fuel and nothing will happens

100% not true, I tested. I get 100eur and full reservoir of gasoline for my car as bet win.

Word "stable" or "safe" dont exist when we speak about fuel.

My friend say like you in previous post, I say this is not true. We take one bottle of diesel about 2 litres, and we spilled on the grass around few m² area. My friend enter in that field after minute two, and throw burning cigarette on grass. :lol:

There was mini explosion, and he lose all hair from legs and arms, even on face he have some consequences.


Here is some very useful and educative videos to prevent and eliminate this statements like in previous post (#33) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAiMtnPxlNc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzsTamPPnHc&feature=related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tYO4jvnJHw&feature=related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuZxFL9cGkI&feature=related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b89x8CAS6xU&feature=related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gct1BmKNvU0&feature=related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVVJZhUXZaY&feature=related

and best seller, mobile phone to see level inside :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNwJfhq6Bbc

 

[yura717]

We take one bottle of diesel about 2 litres, and we spilled on the grass around few m² area. My friend enter in that field after minute two, and throw burning cigarette on grass. :lol:

It happen because of vapour of diesel! Why your friend was waiting for 2 min?

 

[tpetar]

He pray before that.

All fuel vaporate.




Some cases:

DIESEL EXPLOSION in CONVAULT TANK
**broken link removed**

Crews fight diesel tank explosion
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-13850964

Diesel Tank Explosion
http://www.forumworld.com/arson-investigations/read.php?3,4366,4366

Underground Diesel Tank Explodes
**broken link removed**

 

[FvM]

It happen because of vapour of diesel! Why your friend was waiting for 2 min?

Not exactly. There's a fundamental property called flash point. At a temperature below the flash point, the vapour can't be ignited and in particular no explosion can take place. But the liquid can be be ignited if you do it in the right way. A liquid that's been sprayed in the air or spilled e.g. on dry grass can be perfectly ignited and burn in an explosive flame.

For this reasons, safety measures are still required for flammable liquids with > 60 °C flash point, but less restrictive than for low flash point liquids like gasoline.

 

[DineshSL]

You can easily use a floater; fixed at wall or top cover of tank. At the fulcrum, attache a potentiometer that rotates when floater goes up and down. Applying known voltage across the pot, it will develop a voltage in moving pin that proportional to it's rotated angle. That can be calibrated to find the fuel level. No rocket science, cheap and safe also.

This is same method as fuel gauge in most vehicles.

 

[zsolt1]

I sugest to consider the following idea:

The capacity of two paralel plates is C = e x (S/d) , where e is the dielectrical permitivity, S is the surface of the paralel plates and d is the distance between them.
Since air dielectrical permitivity differs from oil dielectrical permitivity, the capacity of the plates (disposed in your tank) will vary with the oil level. If you integrate this capacitor () in a oscilator circuit, you get a variable frequency oscillator wich will modify it's frequency with oil level. After you obtain (calculate,experimental way, ... or whatewer way) the dependency betveen the oil level vs. output frequency, you can use any frequency measuring method you like to get oil level or you can further convert the signal in voltage and than measure it with any ADC ...........
If you are using a metal tank you alredy have a half of the capacitor .....
Just an idea .

- - - Updated - - -

I sugest to consider the following idea:

The capacity of two paralel plates is C = e x (S/d) , where e is the dielectrical permitivity, S is the surface of the paralel plates and d is the distance between them.
Since air dielectrical permitivity differs from oil dielectrical permitivity, the capacity of the plates (disposed in your tank) will vary with the oil level. If you integrate this capacitor () in a oscilator circuit, you get a variable frequency oscillator wich will modify it's frequency with oil level. After you obtain (calculate,experimental way, ... or whatewer way) the dependency betveen the oil level vs. output frequency, you can use any frequency measuring method you like to get oil level or you can further convert the signal in voltage and than measure it with any ADC ...........
If you are using a metal tank you alredy have a half of the capacitor .....
Just an idea .

Ps: the dependency between the oil level vs. output frequency will probably not be linear, but if the dependency caracteristic has a proportional sector you can work on that part of the caracteristic by modifying any system parameter .. Whatever if this does not help or the linear sector of the transfer caracteristic does not cover the oil level range of the tank, than you can use a microcontroller to measure the frequency of the oscilator and calculate oil level. By using a microcontroller you can send data to a PC by RS232, usb or by using radio transceiver modules ....

 

[FvM]

The dielectric sensor principle has been already suggested in post #30. It's quite often used for liquid level switches and can work for a continuous level measurement if the permittivity doesn't vary too much over temperature or product quality.