Is it possible to increase static electricity distance ?

[c_mitra]

"do not exceed maximum arc distance, energy can not be released due to high pressure, it can damage module"..

This is the most common mode of failure. Most likely there is a relaxation oscillator and a transformer. If you keep the secondary wires so far that no arc can take place, it will appear to the transformer that there is no load. Because there are no internal mechanism for regulation, the voltage will increase and internal sparking may take place. Some of these voltages may be reflected back and cause serious and irreversible damage to the single transistor - and this will be hard to repair.

 

[Audioguru]

If you exceed the maximum arc distance then the arc (the load) stops and then they say it will be destroyed because the voltage (pressure) gets too high for its insulation and it becomes ruined.
It is an arc maker, not an ion generator and I think it will not pull or repel things.

You need an ion generator for your plants experiments.

 

[c_mitra]

It is an arc maker, not an ion generator and I think it will not pull or repel things.

An electrical arc produces electrons and ions. Primary product is electrons but these electrons quickly get attached to atoms and molecules and produce negative ions.

An electric arc is produced by field breakdown. Field breakdown can take place in vacuum too. When it takes place in air, accelerated electrons collide with neutral molecules and excite them and these excited molecules produce light.

You can charge a capacitor that is nothing but a reservoir of electric charge, by using this gadget. Then you use the charged capacitor for all your static electricity measurements.

 

[Audioguru]

Nobody makes a high value high voltage capacitor. The gadget might have a low value high voltage capacitor at its output already and it must be running for it to stay charged.

 

[c_mitra]

Nobody makes a high value high voltage capacitor. The gadget might have a low value high voltage capacitor at its output already and it must be running for it to stay charged.

True. But you do not need a high value capacitor because the voltage is so high. The energy stored is 0.5*C*V^2 and you can just make a simple capacitor in the style of a Layden jar. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leyden_jar on how to make one. This one gives a decent nF capacitor with breakdown voltages of the order of million volts or so...

 

[jeolex]

I feel like being illumination about static electiricity. Thank you so much.

Even I make my own capacitor with this high voltage generator (400kv), I couldnt run it more than 1 minute. Because there will be no arc between two terminal and it can damage module, If I am not wrong. I am not sure that charging an insulator and use it for plants is useful. But when I get my ordered item I will try them all.

One of the my aim that make a cylinder which have 20-30 cm diameter and top and bottom is not closed, then put my plant with pot inside of this cylinder. Last step produce a static electricity area inside of this cylinder and see the differences between treated and control plants. I mean I need a day long static electiricity and probably I can do it with my first item (4-6kV negative ion generator) but I dont know it will enough or not.

 

[c_mitra]

One of the my aim that make a cylinder which have 20-30 cm diameter and top and bottom is not closed, then put my plant with pot inside of this cylinder. Last step produce a static electricity area inside of this cylinder and see the differences between treated and control plants. I mean I need a day long static electiricity and probably I can do it with my first item (4-6kV negative ion generator) but I dont know it will enough or not.

The beauty is that the inside of a cylinder or a sphere the electric field is ZERO. Even a simple mesh with plenty of holes to pass light will kill the electric field inside. With top and bottom there will be some leakage but this can serve as the control. For the sample you can use wire brush connected to the high voltage that will continuously spray negative ions on the area.

 

[jeolex]

The beauty is that the inside of a cylinder or a sphere the electric field is ZERO. Even a simple mesh with plenty of holes to pass light will kill the electric field inside. With top and bottom there will be some leakage but this can serve as the control. For the sample you can use wire brush connected to the high voltage that will continuously spray negative ions on the area.

I drew about my project.

So normaly between two terminal which are attached to plates, I can generate static electricity. Isn t it possible to generate static electiricty area between cylinder and stick (you can see above).

 

[c_mitra]

Yes, this is going to produce a strong field, particularly near the centre. You need to insulate one of the electrode very well (the other electrode can be ground).

 

[jeolex]

Yes, this is going to produce a strong field, particularly near the centre. You need to insulate one of the electrode very well (the other electrode can be ground).

Sorry, why I have to insulate one of the electrode. ıf I insulate it, how is it generate static electricity. Did you mean that for example insulate middle of the stick with PVC, thereby PVC charged with static electricity and take on isolated electrode's job ?

 

[jeolex]

I have done my first step of my experiment. You can see from video that there is a static electricity field which is pushing and pulling to rope. If I am not wrong, there is an electron tranferring between stick and surrounding cylinder. So I will grow up cotton plants inside of static electricity area and also a control plants in my next step. We will see that there is a difference or not.

 

[BradtheRad]

Your video plays fine. Now it is clear how your setup works. The dangling rope is a static charge detector... Great idea!

 

[c_mitra]

Nice video. You could have added some music (like the silent movies of the olden days)!

When you place your plant inside, please take care (that it does not touch any of the metal parts) and also about yourself.

The way you have done there is now no need to insulate any of the electrodes. If a picture is worth a thousand words, how much a movie will be?

 

[jeolex]

I was thinking about that what s happen if I place to stick in the middle of the pot which is contain soil. Again am I get same response ? Because when I contact to stick with soil, I will also contact with plant. So I wonder that what is happen if plant contact with one of terminal ?

 

[c_mitra]

Let us say that you have put one electrode in the soil. As the soil is wet, we consider it to be conducting. Same for the plant (just like the human body). All these materials will now be at the same potential (equipotential surface) and the plant will not see any effect from any field. Just image that you are standing on an insulated table and are touching the 220V electric line. You will not get a shock because the charge has no complete path for a circuit completion. You can touch 10,000V and still nothing will happen. However, assume that you have charged an object with a potential of 10KV and you have become charged. You will not feel anything. Now you can disconnect the 10KV potential source. You still do not feel anything but you are now carrying charge. When you touch the ground you will get a shock because the stored charge will dissipate via the body into the ground.

It will be better if you place the plant in the electric field but do not connect it to any potential source. Also think that a highly non-uniform electric field will have more effect (const electric field = linear potential gradient)

 

[jeolex]

There is a video about how to produce electricity. And in this video, he connect one of terminal to his body and the other one (ground) goes to ground. When he switch on, his body charge with static electricity and he can shock something by touching, and can make a sand storm with his hand. So Isn't that mean if I connect ground to stick which is contact with soil and plants, my plants charged with static electiricty I mean negative ions ?

 

[Audioguru]

If you connect the high voltage ground wire to the soil (which contacts the plant) and the high voltage wire to an insulated metal surrounding the plant but at a distance so that there is no spark then there will be a high voltage field in the air around the plant. The 400kV module will be destroyed because it will arc inside itself and it will overheat within one minute anyway. Any wind might move the leaves of the plant close enough to the surrounding metal for an arc to be produced that will burn the plant.

Edit: Try reversing the high voltage wires so that one way produces a field of negative ions and the other way produces a field of positive "whatever they are called".

 

[c_mitra]

The beauty is that, in the move you posted, the person has no effect of the high voltage he is carrying. All the charges reside on the surface. The electric field due to these charges on the body of the experimenter is ZERO.

You are also confusing static electricity with negative ions. I have mentioned elsewhere that high electric fields (static or otherwise) produce corona discharge and these are basically electrons and these electrons get attached to neutral molecules and produce negative ions. How the circuit is being completed? The other charges go to the ground and you are charging the capacitor formed by the earth and the atmosphere.

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field of negative ions and the other way produces a field of positive "whatever they are called".

The field is the result of electric charges. Moving charges cause a current and an electromagnetic field. Electromagnetic fields take away energy and causes radiation.

It is confusing to call a field of negative ions and a field of positive (ions)... The arc is produced by electromagnetic radiation.

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my plants charged with static electiricty I mean negative ions ?

There is a nice article on corona discharge: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_discharge

The light produced comes from the recombination of the ions (or ions and electrons). You can connect a needle to your high voltage setup and see the discharge in a dark room.

You can see that the ions do not travel far; but obviously some will ...

 

[jeolex]

The beauty is that, in the move you posted, the person has no effect of the high voltage he is carrying. All the charges reside on the surface. The electric field due to these charges on the body of the experimenter is ZERO.

You are also confusing static electricity with negative ions. I have mentioned elsewhere that high electric fields (static or otherwise) produce corona discharge and these are basically electrons and these electrons get attached to neutral molecules and produce negative ions. How the circuit is being completed? The other charges go to the ground and you are charging the capacitor formed by the earth and the atmosphere.

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The field is the result of electric charges. Moving charges cause a current and an electromagnetic field. Electromagnetic fields take away energy and causes radiation.

It is confusing to call a field of negative ions and a field of positive (ions)... The arc is produced by electromagnetic radiation.

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There is a nice article on corona discharge: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_discharge

The light produced comes from the recombination of the ions (or ions and electrons). You can connect a needle to your high voltage setup and see the discharge in a dark room.

You can see that the ions do not travel far; but obviously some will ...

So you mean that if I contact one of the terminal with soil and plants, the plants arent effected by static electiricty and they just carry to the electrons. What if I use a insulator such as package tape between soil and stick, so I don't contact one of the terminal with soil then plants cant carry electrons, plants will exposure to electron bouncing between two terminal I mean static electricity. Am I right about this explanation ?

So I planned to exposure plant tissues with negative electrons and see differences between treatment and control. Because especially in process of photosynthesis, there is a electron transport chain and I hypothesize that the electrons (which are produced by negative ion generator) can be use in electron transpor chain of photosynthesis and restrict formation of dangerous molecule which are related to electron transferring.

If you connect the high voltage ground wire to the soil (which contacts the plant) and the high voltage wire to an insulated metal surrounding the plant but at a distance so that there is no spark then there will be a high voltage field in the air around the plant. The 400kV module will be destroyed because it will arc inside itself and it will overheat within one minute anyway. Any wind might move the leaves of the plant close enough to the surrounding metal for an arc to be produced that will burn the plant.

Edit: Try reversing the high voltage wires so that one way produces a field of negative ions and the other way produces a field of positive "whatever they are called".

I will use my first item which is negative ion generator (4-6kv). I think there will be no heat and the arc would not damage the plants.

 

[Audioguru]

A "corona discharge" is not an arc. It is when some electrons fly through the air around the negative high voltage wire and make a small light into the air as it collides with air molecules and recombine with them eliminating the electrical charge. I think the air having the corona discharge is conductive with negative ions. But these ions are too far away from the positive high voltage wire to make an arc. You want your plant to be in the small negative ions region of air. Your negative ion generator is low power so its size of the charged air cloud is small then your plant must also be small to fit in it. You might need a huge and powerful Van De Graff generator to make a big enough ionized air cloud that will fit around your plant.

An arc is a high current discharge through the air from the negative high voltage wire to the nearby positive high voltage wire. I think the air in the arc is very hot and will burn things (or light the gas stove as shown in the video). You do not want an arc in your plants experiment.