Is it possible to increase static electricity distance ?

[jeolex]

Hi my friends,

I have negative ion generator. I have used it for generating static electiricity and I have done it. I can pull some slices of paper, stick etc. by static electricity. But pulling distance is not enough for my project. It is about 2-3 cm. Is it possible to increase the pulling distance of static electricity to approx. 10 cm ?

You can see my items from here

And also want to ask that have high voltage generators capable for producing static electricty ?

Thanks,
Best regards.

 

[Audioguru]

Your module produces only 4kV to 6kV (which is not much) when it is powered from 12V.
A module that produces a higher voltage will make a longer ark. A neon sign transformer (its output is AC, not DC) produces a higher voltage but it might be deadly. For a 10cm ark in dry air you need 30.8kV.

 

[Audioguru]

I forgot to tell you that you have ordinary continuous high voltage electricity, not static electricity that produces one discharge that lasts only for a short time.

 

[jeolex]

I connected both of terminals which are cause an arc to aluminium plates and aimed to produce static electricity area. I made it and I can pull or move slice of paper, dusts, sticks etc. between two plates. Isn t it static electricty ? I just want to increase distance of two plates for more wide pulling area and probably need more higher voltage producer ?

 

[Audioguru]

High voltage DC (your module produces DC) pulls or repels small light weight objects. You can make continuous high voltage DC electricity or maker high voltage momentary DC static electricity.
A transformer produces AC which pulls and repels small light weight objects back and forth too quickly so that they do not move and it can be at a high voltage to make an arc which can burn through something.
A higher voltage makes the effects (more distance and more pull) stronger. If you connect two of your modules in series then the voltage will be doubled and the effects will be a little stronger.

 

[chuckey]

The classic static generator is the Van Da Graff, you could use your module to prime it, to save turning the handle so much. If you can get inside the module, you could replace the existing rectifier set up with a Cockcroft-Walton voltage multiplier :- **broken link removed** .
Frank

 

[jeolex]

High voltage DC (your module produces DC) pulls or repels small light weight objects. You can make continuous high voltage DC electricity or maker high voltage momentary DC static electricity.
A transformer produces AC which pulls and repels small light weight objects back and forth too quickly so that they do not move and it can be at a high voltage to make an arc which can burn through something.
A higher voltage makes the effects (more distance and more pull) stronger. If you connect two of your modules in series then the voltage will be doubled and the effects will be a little stronger.

Thanks for your advice and informations. So I dont know that is true or not, these negative ion generator and high voltage generator have 2 output terminals that one of them is negative other one is positive. So when we close the terminals to eachother, there is an arc between them. İt is mean, there is a electron flow. And also when we connect the terminals to conductive plates and hold them as parallel and spaced, materials that between of the plates will exposure to electron further charged with negative. Am I write ? I try to understand basis of static electricty.

Best regards

 

[c_mitra]

You make a simple capacitor by sticking two Al foils on two sides of a plastic insulator.

Connect the capacitor to the two sides of the generator. To increase the distance by a factor of 5, you need to increase the voltage by a factor of 25. But there are ways to reduce this voltage.

Now disconnect the charging and remove one of the Al foils. The plastic plate is now charged with static electricity of high voltage.

There are many ways to make static electricity- try Wimshurst machine: https://www.amazon.com/LC2310-Wimshurst-Electrostatic-Generator/dp/B000RZO8RO?tag=duckduckgo-d-20

Please pay respect to electricity. It IS dangerous.

- - - Updated - - -

When you connect the two electrodes to two Al foils separated by a plastic sheet (thick enough to withstand the voltage) the two foils get charged with equal and opposite voltages. The charges induce opposite charges in the dielectric and when you pull off one of the Al foils, the charge on the dielectric stays. (take care not to touch the Al foil when you pull it off; use a plastic tool). This can pull a small sheet of paper and you can check the potential with a gold leaf electroscope: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroscope.

If one of the electrode is made of fine wires like a brush, then lots of electrons will be released by corona discharge. This is the basic principle of the negative ion generator.

 

[jeolex]

You make a simple capacitor by sticking two Al foils on two sides of a plastic insulator.

Connect the capacitor to the two sides of the generator. To increase the distance by a factor of 5, you need to increase the voltage by a factor of 25. But there are ways to reduce this voltage.

Now disconnect the charging and remove one of the Al foils. The plastic plate is now charged with static electricity of high voltage.

There are many ways to make static electricity- try Wimshurst machine: https://www.amazon.com/LC2310-Wimshurst-Electrostatic-Generator/dp/B000RZO8RO?tag=duckduckgo-d-20

Please pay respect to electricity. It IS dangerous.

- - - Updated - - -

When you connect the two electrodes to two Al foils separated by a plastic sheet (thick enough to withstand the voltage) the two foils get charged with equal and opposite voltages. The charges induce opposite charges in the dielectric and when you pull off one of the Al foils, the charge on the dielectric stays. (take care not to touch the Al foil when you pull it off; use a plastic tool). This can pull a small sheet of paper and you can check the potential with a gold leaf electroscope: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroscope.

If one of the electrode is made of fine wires like a brush, then lots of electrons will be released by corona discharge. This is the basic principle of the negative ion generator.

Thank you for your explanation. Just now I tried to catch smoke via static electricity. I passed to smoke between two aluminium plates and saw that there were some dust sticked to plate. So I guess that smoke particules are positive charge and they are catched by negative charge which is produced by negative ion generator. For example I want to charge static electricity to one of the object, is this object have to be an insulator ? or any material I can use ?

I am an academician in Faculty of Agriculture. So I also wonder that this static electricity have an impression to plants or not. So I want to make a little experiment. But first I have to be capable for produce a static electricity area for treating with plants. I planned that create a box which is produce static electricity and grow up plant inside and outside of it for comparing results. Is that possible ?

 

[Audioguru]

Wikipedia says that US Dept of Agriculture demos Samonella bacteria being killed with ionized air.
I think your high voltage DC module has positive and negative output wires. If you ground the positive wire then the negative wire releases negative ions into the air. Plants might flourish or be killed by ions in the air or if the entire plant has a charge.

 

[jeolex]

Wikipedia says that US Dept of Agriculture demos Samonella bacteria being killed with ionized air.
I think your high voltage DC module has positive and negative output wires. If you ground the positive wire then the negative wire releases negative ions into the air. Plants might flourish or be killed by ions in the air or if the entire plant has a charge.

I will try it in pots but I have some suspicions. For example How I know that my negative ion generator (4-6 Kv) is enough for plants. Assume it is enough, how can I arrange the distance and sizes of two plates which are generate static electiricty area. I guess there is a complex equation about it, but all of my treatments will be according to assumptions. First I want to start with high voltage and kill the plant then reduce the voltage fractionally and try to find proper voltage for plant.

 

[Audioguru]

You can connect the high voltage to the plant, try both positive then try negative. When the plant is positive then the surroundings should be connected to the negative wire and when the plant is negative then the surroundings should be connected to the positive wire. Of course the plant must be insulated from the surroundings and maybe the surroundings should be grounded.

Then you can try ionized air and the opposite of ions. For negative ionized air the negative wire should connect to a metal grid where the air is blown through. The positive wire connects to ground.
For positive polarized air the positive wire connects to the metal grid and the negative wire connects to ground. Of course the metal grid must be insulated from the surroundings and maybe the surroundings should be grounded.

The high voltage will destroy a multimeter. How do you know which output wire is positive and negative? The color of the wire?

 

[c_mitra]

I believe there are a few misconceptions:

1. Both +ve and -ve ions must be produced in equal amounts. However, you can return one charge via ground but the circuit will fail to complete. Essentially you will be charging up a capacitor made of the earth and the atmosphere.

2. The electric field acts only over a very short distance. A negatively charged particle will attract opposite charges and they will effectively screen the electric field. If you use a fine wire the electric field close to the wire will be huge.

3. The smoke precipitation will work very dramatically if you use an open end of a fine multistrand wire- the wire will act as a ionizer- but you still will need a return path for the current.

3.

 

[jeolex]

The high voltage will destroy a multimeter. How do you know which output wire is positive and negative? The color of the wire?

Here is my negative ion generator. It have inputs (red and black wire) and two output (white wires). I generate static electricity between one of the white wire (doesnt matter which one I choose) and ground wire (black). So is that mean white wire (+), and black wire (-) ? If I wire black wire to plant and the white wire is surronding via aluminium plate, ıs there any static electricity between plant and plate, so am I exposure negative ion to plant ?

And I had an experiment about destroy multimeter via static electiricty

 

[c_mitra]

I guess from the diagram that both the white wires are output and the output is isolated from the input circuit. If you put the two white wires very close (1 mm - 2mm) you can observe sparks. Do not use the black one as the return path for the white wire. I guess the output is AC (there may be a built in diode or voltage doubler circuit) but I may be wrong. You can make a very simple electroscope to study the AC/DC nature of the output or simply set up a 1000:1 voltage divider circuit.

 

[jeolex]

I guess from the diagram that both the white wires are output and the output is isolated from the input circuit. If you put the two white wires very close (1 mm - 2mm) you can observe sparks. Do not use the black one as the return path for the white wire. I guess the output is AC (there may be a built in diode or voltage doubler circuit) but I may be wrong. You can make a very simple electroscope to study the AC/DC nature of the output or simply set up a 1000:1 voltage divider circuit.

It is interesting that there is an arc when I contact one of the white cable to black wire or red wire. I tried many time to contact white cables to each other, but there were nothing to do. It was the same effect when I keep touch red to white and black to white. It s pull the paper or light sticks. I suppose that I can produce a static electiricity are between plates, pulling of papers is verify this.

 

[Audioguru]

The first post of this thread gives an ebay link to this Air Ionizer Negative Ion Generator. If its output wires produced AC then it would not generate ions, instead it would neutralize ions and it would not cause objects to be pulled and repelled, but it could still produce an arc between its close wires. Therefore I think its output is high voltage DC but we do not know which wire is positive and which wire is negative.
A neon bulb held close might show its glowing post nearest the negative wire.

Why are you "contacting" wires together that might destroy the thing? The wires are never supposed to contact. There is probably some capacitance between the 12VDC wires and the white high voltage wires which causes a ion field between the DC and high voltage wires.

 

[jeolex]

The first post of this thread gives an ebay link to this Air Ionizer Negative Ion Generator. If its output wires produced AC then it would not generate ions, instead it would neutralize ions and it would not cause objects to be pulled and repelled, but it could still produce an arc between its close wires. Therefore I think its output is high voltage DC but we do not know which wire is positive and which wire is negative.
A neon bulb held close might show its glowing post nearest the negative wire.

Why are you "contacting" wires together that might destroy the thing? The wires are never supposed to contact. There is probably some capacitance between the 12VDC wires and the white high voltage wires which causes a ion field between the DC and high voltage wires.

I will buy neon lamb and try it. And also I ordered a high voltage generator (400Kv). This item has higher voltage than negative ion generator which I mentioned and give link before. So this high voltage generator have red and black output as I saw from pictures. I will know which one is negative or positive. And I also know that 400 kv is so high and dangerous. Is it possible that controling it s voltage output via regulators or such things ?

 

[Audioguru]

I found a 400kV module on ebay:
1) It uses A LOT of battery current and gets so hot that it must be turned off to cool after operating for 1 minute.
2) It is destroyed if it is operated with no load where the load is an arc I guess.
3) Its output might be AC, not DC.

 

[jeolex]

I found a 400kV module on ebay:
1) It uses A LOT of battery current and gets so hot that it must be turned off to cool after operating for 1 minute.
2) It is destroyed if it is operated with no load where the load is an arc I guess.
3) Its output might be AC, not DC.

Yes I know it and ordered this item from ebay. Here is link.

I read the features and I couldnt understand that why they wrote "do not exceed maximum arc distance, energy can not be released due to high pressure, it can damage module". It s mean, its work principle is different from negative ion generator. I really wonder this item and its capable to do.