EDA suitable tools for the educational and research purpose....

[Junus2012]

Dear friends,

I have a duty to provide my home university with an EDA tool. As you all know there are many EDA companies, among them are Cadence, Mentor, synopsys, tanner....etc

during my master study I have worked with Mentor, I enjoyed the work with it and it is really user friendly. I used the Eldo simulator and the Icstation for the layout design.. it has very nice function that is the schematic drive the layout.

However, I see that Cadence has more audience and it is more industry dependent, it is very common and known by most of the universities...

I really need you suggestions about which one is the best to provide and why?? if you such a special offers to the educational programmes, kindly also tell me

Thank you in advance
looking to your response
Regards

 

[GriffelKin]

Make your University join this:

**broken link removed**

 

[Junus2012]

Dear Griffelkin

Thank you very much for your reply

Unfortunately, I am now not in Eroup, so I can not get the benefits from the site you suggested me

Any way still i am looking for your personal opinion

Make your University join this:

**broken link removed**

 

[dick_freebird]

Silvaco also has front-back tools (with a nice TCAD
integration as well) and has been pretty active with
university support. But that probably will depend on
which university, where.

 

[GriffelKin]

Ok, I thought you were in Europe due to your profile location...
Nevertheless, you can contact the Cadence Academic Network and try and reach an agreement with them.
Probably other vendors should have similar programs too...

As for my personal opinion, I can only talk a little bit about the Analog side of the IC design...

For the schematic and layout design part, I have always used Cadence Virtuoso since I started in this world.
From what I know, it is the most used in the industry and the main PDKs are available for Cadence Virtuoso.

For the simulation part I used to use Cadence Spectre, but now I use Synopsys hSpice.
Both are powerful however, I prefer hSpice since in my opinion I find it more easy to deal with the simulation data post-processing.
Spectre does have some neat options that really speed up large simulations ?probably at the cost of some precision?

For DRC, LVS and parasitic extraction (PEX) I use Calibre from Mentor Graphics and I believe this is the industry standard.
In the beginning I used Cadence Assura, but I besides being the industry standard I find Mentor's Calibre more easy to use, more versatility and more powerfull.


This is just my opinion from the small experience I have.
Experienced users may help you more!

Dear Griffelkin

Thank you very much for your reply

Unfortunately, I am now not in Eroup, so I can not get the benefits from the site you suggested me

Any way still i am looking for your personal opinion

 

[Junus2012]

Dear dick-freebird

I am currently work in Iraq, i think you for sure this country

Silvaco also has front-back tools (with a nice TCAD
integration as well) and has been pretty active with
university support. But that probably will depend on
which university, where.

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Dear Griff

Thank you very much for your comprehensive explanation, I completely agree with what you said, Cadence is the industry leader EDA tool, nevertheless Mentor has the same importance as the calibiri tools are their trademark. when I am searching in different semiconductor foundry i saw they mostly use Cadence and HSPICE from synopses.

As i mentioned in my first post, the problem is with the price and therefore most of the companies afford a special price for the academic institutions.

I have done my first contact now with mentor to have a chance in HEP (higher education programme) and I will try also for cadence using academic network you have suggested me.

Ok, I thought you were in Europe due to your profile location...
Nevertheless, you can contact the Cadence Academic Network and try and reach an agreement with them.
Probably other vendors should have similar programs too...

As for my personal opinion, I can only talk a little bit about the Analog side of the IC design...

For the schematic and layout design part, I have always used Cadence Virtuoso since I started in this world.
From what I know, it is the most used in the industry and the main PDKs are available for Cadence Virtuoso.

For the simulation part I used to use Cadence Spectre, but now I use Synopsys hSpice.
Both are powerful however, I prefer hSpice since in my opinion I find it more easy to deal with the simulation data post-processing.
Spectre does have some neat options that really speed up large simulations ?probably at the cost of some precision?

For DRC, LVS and parasitic extraction (PEX) I use Calibre from Mentor Graphics and I believe this is the industry standard.
In the beginning I used Cadence Assura, but I besides being the industry standard I find Mentor's Calibre more easy to use, more versatility and more powerfull.


This is just my opinion from the small experience I have.
Experienced users may help you more!

 

[GriffelKin]

Dear dick-freebird

I am currently work in Iraq, i think you for sure this country



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Dear Griff

Thank you very much for your comprehensive explanation, I completely agree with what you said, Cadence is the industry leader EDA tool, nevertheless Mentor has the same importance as the calibiri tools are their trademark. when I am searching in different semiconductor foundry i saw they mostly use Cadence and HSPICE from synopses.

As i mentioned in my first post, the problem is with the price and therefore most of the companies afford a special price for the academic institutions.

I have done my first contact now with mentor to have a chance in HEP (higher education programme) and I will try also for cadence using academic network you have suggested me.

Your are welcome!

Later on, if want to produce any Si you can then use Europractice and their MPW program despite being in Iraq.
If making prototypes is not a goal for a near future and you go for Cadence tools, you can get theirs GPDK and tackle any foundry licensing this way .

Good Luck

 

[Junus2012]

In the current time Mentor has responded to me and I am in correspondences with them, any way I have done many contacts with Cadence but still.......

you told me about the PDK, as they usually these models you have to provide separately by yourself from the foundry, i dont think that EDA company give it you, isnt it ????

concerning the MPW, yes you are right cause I have contacted the Europractic and they told me exactly the same. However, MOSIS also offers the MPW with good offer and I am going to register at their programme as soon as I get the EDA

if you know any other MPW offers from another foundry please also tell

I thank you very much for your active response and I appreciate your kind help

Best Regards

Your are welcome!

Later on, if want to produce any Si you can then use Europractice and their MPW program despite being in Iraq.
If making prototypes is not a goal for a near future and you go for Cadence tools, you can get theirs GPDK and tackle any foundry licensing this way .

Good Luck

 

[GriffelKin]

In the current time Mentor has responded to me and I am in correspondences with them, any way I have done many contacts with Cadence but still.......

you told me about the PDK, as they usually these models you have to provide separately by yourself from the foundry, i dont think that EDA company give it you, isnt it ????

concerning the MPW, yes you are right cause I have contacted the Europractic and they told me exactly the same. However, MOSIS also offers the MPW with good offer and I am going to register at their programme as soon as I get the EDA

if you know any other MPW offers from another foundry please also tell

I thank you very much for your active response and I appreciate your kind help

Best Regards

Yes, the PDKs are foundry specif process models and are not (from what I know) provided by the EDA vendors.
I know that Cadence has a generic PDK for their tools.
However, you cannot produce any prototypes with it since its for simulation/learning purposes only.
Since Cadence has a generic PDK surely other vendors might have them also, but since you want to fabricate I don't think this type of PDKs will suit you.

Concerning the MPW, the only ones I know are Europractice and MOSIS so I cannot help you further in this field...

Regards!

 

[keith1200rs]

Concerning the MPW, the only ones I know are Europractice and MOSIS so I cannot help you further in this field...

Regards!

You can always get MPWs direct from foundries - you don't have to use Europractice/MOSIS. I don't know if the costs are higher though.

Keith

 

[GriffelKin]

You can always get MPWs direct from foundries - you don't have to use Europractice/MOSIS. I don't know if the costs are higher though.

Keith

Didn't know that.
Thanks!
However, since at least Europractice is a program co-funded by EU to boost semiconductor knowledge in Europe, I hope it is cheaper XD

 

[Junus2012]

Not all of the fab support the educational programme with the MPW, see this from Wiki

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-project_wafer_service

Thanx a lot

You can always get MPWs direct from foundries - you don't have to use Europractice/MOSIS. I don't know if the costs are higher though.

Keith

 

[keith1200rs]

I have never used MOSIS/Europractice - I have always dealt direct with fabs but you can check the prices for Europractice here:

You would have to contact the fabs direct for their pricing but from what I have seen in the past it is similar to the the Europractice prices.

Keith

 

[Junus2012]

However, MOSIS offers free one chip per year, for further chips you pay but with supported price, this is only for the educational institutes and universities. However I thank you very much for your information... please also do you have an idea how much cost the design kits for a certain technology like CMOS 180 nm???

I have never used MOSIS/Europractice - I have always dealt direct with fabs but you can check the prices for Europractice here:

You would have to contact the fabs direct for their pricing but from what I have seen in the past it is similar to the the Europractice prices.

Keith

 

[keith1200rs]

You don't pay for design kits - the fabs supply them to you once you have an NDA with them.

Keith

 

[Junus2012]

Are you sure ? it is very interesting for me because not for all the projects I am intending to fabricate, most of them are dedicated for research paper...... But one day I attended a conference in Germany and asked him for the model and he told me it costs me several thousands Euro, Exactly he is the man from XFAB.....now what you say

and pleasse tell me what means the NDA?

You don't pay for design kits - the fabs supply them to you once you have an NDA with them.

Keith

 

[keith1200rs]

I have been using Xfab for many years and never had to pay for any models. I wouldn't expect to - if they charge for the information to use their process I would simply use someone who doesn't. I have process data and models from lots of fabs and never paid (Maxim, TSMC, SMIC, AMS, Chartered, Zetex (Diodes), BCD, Lite-On, Tower, Xfab plus probably a few others I have forgotten about). In almost all cases I had to sign an NDA. NDA is "Non Disclosure Agreement" which is why no-one should be posting the data on the forums!

It is probably different if you are looking for pre-designed functional blocks to use, but I have always found process models to be free.

Keith

 

[Junus2012]

Thank you so much Keith

it is really very good information for me. I dont know why this guy from XFAB told me I have to pay? I met him in Dresden.
i do like working with XFAB technology.

in this case i will try to work with XFAB as i like it

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in this case i will try to work with XFAB as i like it

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Kindly, do you have an idea about how much cost the complete IC flow tool from Cadence.

By the way, Mentor has offered us with only 500 Dollar, it is really cheap

 

[GriffelKin]

Kindly, do you have an idea about how much cost the complete IC flow tool from Cadence.

By the way, Mentor has offered us with only 500 Dollar, it is really cheap

It would not shock me if prices were different for different Universities...
EDAs do that with companies, they might also do it with Universities.

Regarding the PDKs...
Choose one that suits your needs however, if you have to choose between two, check their foundry production prices since it might vary considerably

 

[analayout]

Hi Junus,

For fabrication and EDA set up and other IC design related consultancy service you can contact wafercat from SAudi Arabia. Their website is www.wafercat.com , they have very good deals for academic institutions.

Regards,
Analayout.