Welcome to EDAboard.com

Welcome to our site! EDAboard.com is an international Electronic Discussion Forum focused on EDA software, circuits, schematics, books, theory, papers, asic, pld, 8051, DSP, Network, RF, Analog Design, PCB, Service Manuals... and a whole lot more! To participate you need to register. Registration is free. Click here to register now.

Register Log in

A non tesla method of electrical energy tramsmission

ggnadkarni

Junior Member level 2
Joined
Jul 30, 2020
Messages
23
Helped
0
Reputation
0
Reaction score
0
Trophy points
1
Activity points
119
A single wire method....
Subject: Fw: A single wire non Tesla electrical energy transmission technique
....................
An Ungrounded floating electrical point ( totem pole) is connected to a resistor and the other end of the resistor is connected to a floating straight conductor 500 miles long.This is the kind of length used in power transmission.
The time to travel to the end of this conductor and back is roughly 5 milliseconds from resistor end.
The floating electrical point is switching from high voltage to low at the rate 200 Hz with 50% duty cycle,which is inverse of five milliseconds.
My theory is in-spite of everything being floating,there will be consumption of power by the resistor.
Since no ground is used,there will be no shock hazards.So,no transmission towers,transformers or insulators.
Eventually,the 500 mile long transmission line will be a module in each home like a bulk acoustic delay line.

There will be only one single line of the size of a glass fibre getting into the house from outside.
A suboceanic bare single wire can be used to transmit power between continents.No need to import coal from far and wide places.
 

wwfeldman

Advanced Member level 2
Joined
Jan 25, 2019
Messages
693
Helped
169
Reputation
338
Reaction score
167
Trophy points
43
Activity points
5,025
sounds like you have a source connected to a resistor, connected to a very long antenna

once you connect something to the floating end,
how is it going to do anything but float, without a return?

current is the medium that transfers energy from the source to the load
there is no current if there is no closed loop from source to load and back

maybe you should put a little physics into your suggestion
so maybe it could be evaluated, but off hand, I'd say it won't work
 

Easy peasy

Advanced Member level 5
Joined
Aug 15, 2015
Messages
2,493
Helped
913
Reputation
1,826
Reaction score
907
Trophy points
113
Location
Melbourne
Activity points
14,069
hahaha .. what value is the resistor? - have you heard of the maximum power transfer theorem ... ? ( it's more proven fact than theorem actually )
--- Updated ---

also - whether you like it or not - everything has a volt potential w.r.t. ground or earth ...
 
Last edited:

FvM

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
46,987
Helped
13,938
Reputation
28,124
Reaction score
12,576
Trophy points
1,393
Location
Bochum, Germany
Activity points
273,971
A single wire can be described as transmission line, it's impedance is still determined by capacitance and inductance per length unit, both depending on the distance to ground. Touching a powered single wire will be still hazardous.

Your floating source (DC voltage plus switches) will however transmit no power to the line and load if it's truely floating. Respectively a small amount defined by the parasitic ground capacitance of the source. Any circuit with non-zero dimensions is involving a certain ground capacitance.
 

ggnadkarni

Junior Member level 2
Joined
Jul 30, 2020
Messages
23
Helped
0
Reputation
0
Reaction score
0
Trophy points
1
Activity points
119
When my 4000 volts supply switches at 50 Hz,I see the gold leaves flaring,opening. Due to the flow of charge over 20 metres of length of a copper wire( imagine 2.5 millisecond) and then for zero volts at the source,the leaves collapse to their natural position.
So,the charge /discharge current is continuously happening through the resistor.so,power is consumed by it.
 

FvM

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
46,987
Helped
13,938
Reputation
28,124
Reaction score
12,576
Trophy points
1,393
Location
Bochum, Germany
Activity points
273,971
You didn't specify the DC voltage source, hence I assumed it as ideally floating. In this case there's no flow of charge.

If your DC source has hidden ground connection or capacitance to ground, please clarify.
 

ggnadkarni

Junior Member level 2
Joined
Jul 30, 2020
Messages
23
Helped
0
Reputation
0
Reaction score
0
Trophy points
1
Activity points
119
Please refer to my schematic it has a dc source of 10000 volts and two switches to turn the common point of the switches into a totem pole.
 

FvM

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
46,987
Helped
13,938
Reputation
28,124
Reaction score
12,576
Trophy points
1,393
Location
Bochum, Germany
Activity points
273,971
I have seen your schematic. It does not clarify if the DC source has any connection to ground or at least capacitive coupling. If not (source ideally floating) the circuit won't source current respectively charge or power to the connected line.
 

betwixt

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 4, 2009
Messages
14,190
Helped
4,687
Reputation
9,389
Reaction score
4,440
Trophy points
1,393
Location
Aberdyfi, West Wales, UK
Activity points
121,178
You keep referring to 'Power'.
Power = applied voltage multiplied by the current flowing.
We can see you swap polarity of the voltage with the switches but where does the current flow?
Vanything * Inothing = 0 power.

Brian.
 

ggnadkarni

Junior Member level 2
Joined
Jul 30, 2020
Messages
23
Helped
0
Reputation
0
Reaction score
0
Trophy points
1
Activity points
119
I have seen your schematic. It does not clarify if the DC source has any connection to ground or at least capacitive coupling. If not (source ideally floating) the circuit won't source current respectively charge or power to the connected line.
If I put a voltmeter across the resistor and if it shows voltage in charge /discharge situation,then it is consuming power.
There is no connection with ground but the negative terminal ( zero) of the source.In fact,it was a mosquito killing racket which generates 4000 volts and a zero volts around.so,I was using a screwdriver tip to short it to a fully floating ground.
So,my test is afirmmative.
Thanks.
 

ggnadkarni

Junior Member level 2
Joined
Jul 30, 2020
Messages
23
Helped
0
Reputation
0
Reaction score
0
Trophy points
1
Activity points
119
You keep referring to 'Power'.
Power = applied voltage multiplied by the current flowing.
We can see you swap polarity of the voltage with the switches but where does the current flow?
Vanything * Inothing = 0 power.

Brian.
--- Updated ---

When S1 is on and S2 is off,the charge rushes to the end of transmission line (for 2.5 milliseconds.).so,the current is 10000volts divided by the value of the resistor.
When the totem pole switches go the otherway,the charge on the conductor is drained into the negative terminal of the 10000 vollt source.The backward flow of charge is current again in the reverse direction.
So,both the times,power is consumed in the rsistor.
Here,the resistor depicts the city load.
My mosquito racket test has shown it happening.
My delay line was the voice coil of a speaker with the cone In series with resistor and the other end of the voice coil was connected to goldleaf like electroscope aluminum foil set up.
I could see the leaves flaring and closing with some delay.
Just imagine,the 10000 volts supply is a geostationary satellite
And all the set up is in space.
--- Updated ---

Reply sent.
 
Last edited:

Easy peasy

Advanced Member level 5
Joined
Aug 15, 2015
Messages
2,493
Helped
913
Reputation
1,826
Reaction score
907
Trophy points
113
Location
Melbourne
Activity points
14,069
a long line will have capacitance to earth - if the source has even a very small capacitance to earth then there will be a small impulse current in the res at switching - BUT - still not a low loss / high efficiency way to distribute power - you don't see resistors in transmissions lines ... ( the ones designed to shift power from A to B )
 

ggnadkarni

Junior Member level 2
Joined
Jul 30, 2020
Messages
23
Helped
0
Reputation
0
Reaction score
0
Trophy points
1
Activity points
119
Imagine this way.A 500 mile long transmission bare copper line
Is coiled up and stored in a high rise building right on the outskirts of a city.surely,it has two ends.When avoltage source is connected to one end,the charge flows and takes a certain time to reach the other end.
So,while the charge is flowing ,it is an inductor because of the flow of current.
Once,the current has stopped,it is a capacitor holding the charge.
When the switch S2 is ON and S1 is off,the charge goes back to the 10000 volt supply.
In other words,it is a dual purpose single terminal device.
--- Updated ---

Rely sent.
 

KlausST

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
17,469
Helped
3,946
Reputation
7,890
Reaction score
3,815
Trophy points
113
Activity points
115,806
Hi,

And a current does not necessarily mean a lot of energy transport.

Let's say AC current through a capacitor. It will surely cause voltage.
With a low value series resistor you may see a voltage drop caused by the current. You may measure the voltage drop.
But there is no averaged energy, although there is voltage and there is current. The only thing that really consumes energy is the current measurement resistor.

Klaus
 

ggnadkarni

Junior Member level 2
Joined
Jul 30, 2020
Messages
23
Helped
0
Reputation
0
Reaction score
0
Trophy points
1
Activity points
119
Hi,

And a current does not necessarily mean a lot of energy transport.

Let's say AC current through a capacitor. It will surely cause voltage.
With a low value series resistor you may see a voltage drop caused by the current. You may measure the voltage drop.
But there is no averaged energy, although there is voltage and there is current. The only thing that really consumes energy is the current measurement resistor.

Klaus
--- Updated ---

The resistor is the city load..
 

FvM

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
46,987
Helped
13,938
Reputation
28,124
Reaction score
12,576
Trophy points
1,393
Location
Bochum, Germany
Activity points
273,971
There is no connection with ground but the negative terminal ( zero) of the source.
So the source is not floating. Neither is the transmision line, see post #5.

Coiling up a long (1 m, 1 km, whatsoever) single wire "transmission line" will cancel it's transmission characteristic because you remove the ground reference. You can do this with a coaxial (two conductor) line, but not with a single wire.
 

ggnadkarni

Junior Member level 2
Joined
Jul 30, 2020
Messages
23
Helped
0
Reputation
0
Reaction score
0
Trophy points
1
Activity points
119
So the source is not floating. Neither is the transmision line, see post #5.

Coiling up a long (1 m, 1 km, whatsoever) single wire "transmission line" will cancel it's transmission characteristic because you remove the ground reference. You can do this with a coaxial (two conductor) line, but not with a single wire.
--- Updated ---

What is a high tension power line...it is a transmission line...coaxial lines were invented much later when rf became commodity..
When coiled as said in the previous quote,the wave might slow down because of inductive coupling between windings..
I will stop discussing further because this is becoming crackpotting...
--- Updated ---

--- Updated ---


What is a high tension power line...it is a transmission line...coaxial lines were invented much later when rf became commodity..
When coiled as said in the previous quote,the wave might slow down because of inductive coupling between windings..
I will stop discussing further because this is becoming crackpotting...
Further auestioning...talk to nikolateslainventorsclub.com
 
Last edited:

FvM

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
46,987
Helped
13,938
Reputation
28,124
Reaction score
12,576
Trophy points
1,393
Location
Bochum, Germany
Activity points
273,971
I understand that you miss the physical theory to analyze the behavior of the single wire line. That's no problem as such. The problem is resistance to advice.
 

ggnadkarni

Junior Member level 2
Joined
Jul 30, 2020
Messages
23
Helped
0
Reputation
0
Reaction score
0
Trophy points
1
Activity points
119
I understand that you miss the physical theory to analyze the behavior of the single wire line. That's no problem as such. The problem is resistance to advice.
--- Updated ---

I look at it as flow of water and the transmission line as mid level tank and the zero voltage point as the final drain point.
I have tried it at home.I do not need anybody’s advice.
 
Last edited:

Toggle Sidebar

Part and Inventory Search

Welcome to EDABoard.com

Sponsor

Top