The Best RF simulator

[mkhogely]

hello every Body,,
I am working in VHF transciever for final project,now I am designing in the PA. I am using ADS simulator, but I get problem in the Output Matching Network (OMN) and the matching between OMN and the RF passive filter after the PA,, The problem is that there are big different between simulation result and the LAP reading specially when filter is inserted, so i look for a best simulator to do this or any tool in ads inspect of tools available in ADS,,,
Thanks.

 

[BigBoss]

ADS is used to design millions of military/commercial/multi billion dollars project and you're still looking for better one for a VHF Power Amplifier...
Why don't you inspect your errors that you did ?? Simulators do not all..

 

[mkhogely]

ADS is used to design millions of military/commercial/multi billion dollars project and you're still looking for better one for a VHF Power Amplifier...
Why don't you inspect your errors that you did ?? Simulators do not all..

I appreciate your contribution but I had trouble at this point specially i know what ADS and it's capabilities and accuracy but this problem occur when there is passive filter network after PA OMN. If u have any help plz tell me...
Thank u

 

[MK28]

@mkhogely: BigBoss is right...ADS is a very good tool. You could also try AWR (but would it (new tool) really solve your problem!).

What is the actual problem, could you be more specific pls?

 

[volker_muehlhaus]

I agree with "BigBoss" that often, the problem with RF simulators is the (incorrect) use of the simulator/models.

 

[BigBoss]

I appreciate your contribution but I had trouble at this point specially i know what ADS and it's capabilities and accuracy but this problem occur when there is passive filter network after PA OMN. If u have any help plz tell me...
Thank u

If you post your project file with the models, we can say something concrete..

 

[MamadJun]

I dont suggest you to change your simulator. ADS is still the best. try to debug your problem.

 

[tony_lth]

for matching, there is a Beta software AnTune, you can try. WWW.Antune.NET (or .Org, I can't remember clearly.)
This software is developed by a member of our forum. It is really very good for matching.

 

[mkhogely]

Thank you all,,,
As I mention first this problem occur when any filter is connect after PA OMN the Result in Simulation is far away from that in LAP,,
I try to work in LAP a lot of time by tuning some values but the problem as it.
I work in 5W PA I gained about 6W from PA + Matchnig but the filter is drop about 2-dB and it pull a high current when it used.

 

[volker_muehlhaus]

the Result in Simulation is far away from that in LAP

Yes, understood. The typical reason for that is incorrect use of the simulator models. How can we help you without knowing any details about your simulation?

 

[mkhogely]

thank you every body, I attach the PA OMN and the harmonic filter for band (30-50) MHZ,
the matching is done to for range (30-88)MHz.
as mentioned early the output in ADS simulation is very good to give result above 5watt but result in LAP is totally differen. I hope you to help me
thank you

The Harmonic Filter

https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/4184282500_1350972951.png

the PA OMN

https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/7342399400_1350972952.png

 

[volker_muehlhaus]

You have simulated with ideal components, but real components have parasitics. This can cause big differences between simulation and real world measurement results. You should go to the component manufacturers website and get the S-parameters (s2p files) for your capacitors and inductors.

Here is an example for an inductor component library (Coilcraft):
**broken link removed**

Capacitor library (Murata):
**broken link removed**

 

[Andrew77]

I agree with wolker, you are using ideal components; real components are quite different and depends from manifacturer to manifacturer.
If you are going to use ATC capacitors (such as ATC100B, 100A o 600S) you, probably, will get the best results, near the ideal, however they are expensive. Consider also the tolerance...
Using AWR as simulator you can simulate the modeled filters with a real model of the components, but I think also ADS should have this feature; anyway if you do a good match you shouldn't need of the Harmonic filter so to reduce the complexity of the PA..

 

[rodgerwxh]

In this figure, https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/4184282500_1350972951.png, your series capacitors in parallel with inductors units as "nH", I do not know if that is acceptable by ADS. I also agree with Volker, if you need a better simulation results. You need to put more details in the simulation model. Each manufacturers provide data sheets which include SPICE eqivalent models of their devices. Use those would increase the accuracy. If that still goes wrong, then a full-wave analysis might be needed to capture surf waves, resonances and creepings. Caveat is you are sure your design is correct, so that you are comparing apple to apple.

 

[volker_muehlhaus]

Using AWR as simulator you can simulate the modeled filters with a real model of the components, but I think also ADS should have this feature

Yes, ADS can do this just like AWR. The user just needs to install and use the library with this more detailed component data.

your series capacitors in parallel with inductors units as "nH", I do not know if that is acceptable by ADS.

I think this is a mistake when creating the graph, and unit used in the ADS schematic is nF?