Looking for 8 bit small controllers

[Alan8947]

Hi

I've been retired for 17 years and I was more into analog RF design before. I did design using HC11 long time ago but just on the hardware side.

I want to design with the more modern and popular controllers today and I need suggestions. The things that I am looking for is very much like HC11 which includes:

1) 8bit.
2) with ADC and DAC.
3) easier to solder at home, no BGA or types that requires special soldering tools. SMD is ok as long as it's not too small.
4) Popular, that I can get help here with programming.

My goal is to design some controller for my other projects. Also, I just learned C++, I want to put it into practice by writing codes for the micro controller.

Thanks

 

[KlausST]

Hi,

I´ve done a lot with ATMEL (now Microchip) AVRs. Not bad, fast.

Did you check Arduino? It´s more an IDE, but they also sell boards. Lot´s of libraries.
And on some boards they also use AVRs.

Klaus

 

[Alan8947]

Hi,

I´ve done a lot with ATMEL (now Microchip) AVRs. Not bad, fast.

Did you check Arduino? It´s more an IDE, but they also sell boards. Lot´s of libraries.
And on some boards they also use AVRs.

Klaus

Thanks for the reply, I don't even know where to start. Do you have any specific part number so I can look at the data sheet. I just need to find one that a lot of people use(particular people here), I need all the help I can get as my experience on micro controller is very limited.

I forgot one thing, I need something I can use C++(enough EEPROM etc.). I've seen some with very little memory, I don't think it's enough for using C++, might be only good for assembly language only.

Thanks

 

[danadakk]

If you think you will have significant amount of mixed signal
then this might interest you, post #3 and #5.

https://www.edaboard.com/threads/small-microcontroller-eval-board-with-inbuilt-adc-and-input-port-to-the-adc.403363/#post-1737697

Note you can actually do codeless designs because of drag and drop logic area
onboard.

Just a few project examples PSOIC 4 low end family (many more in IDE) -

http://www.element14.com/community/thread/23736/l/100-projects-in-100-days

The above largely use the PSOC 4 Pioneer board, which has an Arduino type pinout that
can use shiled boards for things like displays and motor control and....Go for the
CY8CKIT-044 board if you go for this family.

It is 32 bit, there is a low end family, PSOC 4, still 32 bit.

Would be various SMD, down to 28 SSOP. Main focus more
like 68 (if memory serves me).

Alternative is Atmel RISC, simple A/D and DAC, some dip packages
down to 8 pin, ATTINY85 kinds of parts, Or of course Microchip.


Regards, Dana.

 

[Alan8947]

If you think you will have significant amount of mixed signal
then this might interest you, post #3 and #5.

https://www.edaboard.com/threads/small-microcontroller-eval-board-with-inbuilt-adc-and-input-port-to-the-adc.403363/#post-1737697

It is 32 bit, there is a low end family, PSOC 4, still 32 bit.

Would be various SMD, down to 28 SSOP. Main focus more
like 68 (if memory serves me).

Alternative is Atmel RISC, simple A/D and DAC, some dip packages
down to 8 pin, ATTINY85 kinds of parts, Or of course Microchip.


Regards, Dana.

Thanks

I just want simple small stuff to do simple things only, nothing fancy. The days when I was still working, 8051 core was still popular. I just want something simple.

 

[danadakk]

Thanks

I just want simple small stuff to do simple things only, nothing fancy. The days when I was still working, 8051 core was still popular. I just want something simple.

Its simple in this sense. You drag and drop components ( a component is onchip resource)
onto design canvas, double click, config the component, like a PWM you set its # bits, its
duty cycle compare registers, its trigger mode, and thats it. Then drag and drop a pin,
route that to PWM (wizard). Then enter one C instruction into main(), a start instruction.
And you are done. If you need real time changes done to PWM then it has a rich library
of f() calls, APIs, you just call in main to manipulate it.

Same is true for analog stuff, drag and drop and config power, G if a PGA, drag and drop
pins.....and a start instruction.

Its quite simple. More complex designs use stuff like DMA, but then again you have a
wizard to set that up. The Infineon website has a very active group used by devotees
and supported by Infineon engineering.

I have programmed stuff like 4004 in early 70's thru 8051 and Freescale HC and NSC
and I will never go back to a dumb down processor. I wanted this part in late 70's
but mixed signal fabs just not there way back when. GUI tools absolutely worth their
money in gold. I used the board in the post above most often, just add pins to it, and
use that in prototypes. You can route pin signals, and do something as simple as
this, using a base project, to do very advanced stuff like filtering if needed. Again
a wizard guides you thru this makes this a simple task. And this just takes a fraction
of the resources onchip. Simple.

By the way, this does use DMA but is just one of 100+ projects done that
one can use/cannibalize for user designs.


Regards, Dana.

--- Updated Jul 20, 2022 ---

Not to confuse you but I still recommend real low end stuff like ATTINY85
for some tasks, and block programming (fast to create) like this :

https://www.edaboard.com/threads/moved-pulse-sequence-generator-smart-timer.398291/

This was done in an ATTINY85 8 pin AVR part. The block programming is a gas,
used by kids in 5'th and 6'th grades to program robots, now many more block
programming efforts out there from MIT, Berkley. Even ones that get you up and
running in 5 - 10 min on a web application like TUNIOT.


Regards, Dana.

 

[KlausST]

Hi,

Again: Arduino IDE works with (some kind of) C++.
Arduino uno uses AVR ATmega328.

Code size mainly depends on source code .... and only a little on language.
You surely could write meaningful C++ code which needs just 100 bytes of flash.

DAC are not very common on small 8 bit MCUs. Alternatively you may use (filtered) PWM or an external DAC.

"Enough" EEPROM ... what is enough? We don't know.
Btw: AVRs have: FLASH for program code, EEPROM for non volatile data, RAM for volatile data.


Klaus

 

[Alan8947]

Thanks guys

I will take the info and look up in Digikey to read some datasheets. It should be a good starting point.

Is 8051 core out of date? That was the last kind I designed from Analog Devices.

 

[danadakk]

8051 derivatives will still be here when the sun turns into a red giant and melts all the 8051's in the
solar system.

But as a solution to meet the times leaves a lot wanting. An abacus might be a better solution.....sorry
my biases are getting the best of me.


Regards, Dana.

 

[Alan8947]

One more question, in my last design with MPU, we had an external EEPROM that connect to the MPU through I2C and we can download program from computer. What do you call this configuration?

Sorry, I am really out of the game!!! I was the manager of EE, I designed all the system, RF and analog, I had my engineer designing all those processor control and programming. Now that I am retired and doing it as hobby, I am doing a one man band!!! The last thing I was fully involved what still in the early 80s where I did assembly language programming on 8085 and Z80!!!! That's how old my knowledge is on this.

 

[danadakk]

I am assuming the EE just was for data under program control of the MPU.

Programming depends on vendor, maybe JTAG or GPIO bit bang or proprietary
interface. You would have to consult part datasheet. Maybe someone else here
can comment, I have lost tracks of 8051 derivatives and their development
processes.


Regards, Dana.

 

[KlausST]

Hi,

I had experience with z80, 8051, 65xx, 68000...
Then (more than 25 years ago) a was looking for a modern 8 bit microcontroller.
I tried PIC, then came to AVR. (Because I found all the above outdated)
Regarding speed, power consumption, periferals, in system programming .... this was my choice. Good choice.
A couple of years ago I started with STM32 because I more often needed 32 bit calculations and more processing power.

Klaus

 

[Alan8947]

Hi,

Again: Arduino IDE works with (some kind of) C++.
Arduino uno uses AVR ATmega328.

Code size mainly depends on source code .... and only a little on language.
You surely could write meaningful C++ code which needs just 100 bytes of flash.

DAC are not very common on small 8 bit MCUs. Alternatively you may use (filtered) PWM or an external DAC.

"Enough" EEPROM ... what is enough? We don't know.
Btw: AVRs have: FLASH for program code, EEPROM for non volatile data, RAM for volatile data.


Klaus

I am looking at ATMEGA328, It's 28pin DIP which is easy to work with at home. Only thing is both Mouser and Digikey are out of stock. Any other suggestion I can look into?

I am ready to move on from 8051. I am just doing research on new parts. No point in hanging on the good old days!!! Just my knowledge is BLANK at this point and this is the first day I am looking at this. Any part number is a good start for me to look at the datasheet.

Thanks

 

[FenTrac]

Digikey currently has the new AVR chips like AVR32DB28. This particular chip has a 10 bit DAC
which the ATmega328 doesn't have.

 

[Alan8947]

Digikey currently has the new AVR chips like AVR32DB28. This particular chip has a 10 bit DAC
which the ATmega328 doesn't have.

Great, that's even better. I already put 5 into my cart. This is the first option for me. I just want to wait for a few, then I can narrow down.

Thanks

 

[Aussie Susan]

Might I also suggest that you get a prototyping board that lets you replace the MCU.
I'm more familiar with the original Microchip (i.e. PIC) families and they make 'Explorer' boards where you can plug i a number of different 'PIMs' (plug in modules) that hold the different MCUs.
This will allow you to start small and then expand over time as your knowledge and desire to tackle more complex projects increases.
Also don't be afraid of the 16-bit devices - many of them have more built-in modules such as DACs.
If you want to program in C++ then you might actually be limiting your options as many of the smaller MCUs are programmed in C - but C is a very good choice for many applications.
Susan

 

[Alan8947]

Might I also suggest that you get a prototyping board that lets you replace the MCU.
I'm more familiar with the original Microchip (i.e. PIC) families and they make 'Explorer' boards where you can plug i a number of different 'PIMs' (plug in modules) that hold the different MCUs.
This will allow you to start small and then expand over time as your knowledge and desire to tackle more complex projects increases.
Also don't be afraid of the 16-bit devices - many of them have more built-in modules such as DACs.
If you want to program in C++ then you might actually be limiting your options as many of the smaller MCUs are programmed in C - but C is a very good choice for many applications.
Susan

Thanks
Can you give me a part number of the PIC so I can have somewhere to start?

I only studied C++, that's why.

 

[FenTrac]

The AVR programming compiler, AVR-GCC, which is used by the Arduino IDE, supports C++.

 

[Aussie Susan]

These are along the lines I was thinkign about in the Microchip PIC area:

Dynamic Dev Tool Page | Microchip Technology

Dynamic Dev Tool Page | Microchip Technology

If you studied C++ then you do actually know C - just forget about classes etc. and realise that 'static' has a different meaning.
Susan

 

[Alan8947]

These are along the lines I was thinkign about in the Microchip PIC area:

Dynamic Dev Tool Page | Microchip Technology

Dynamic Dev Tool Page | Microchip Technology

If you studied C++ then you do actually know C - just forget about classes etc. and realise that 'static' has a different meaning.
Susan

Thanks
I have been looking at two parts, sounds like MicroChip has the simple ones for me. The two parts are AVR32DB28, and PIC16F17126. Both have ADC and DAC, both can be 28pin DIP(easy for home hobby soldering and with socket). Most importantly, Digikey carry them.

This is way over my head. Do you have any suggestion of something even simpler and smaller than these two? The simpler, the easier for me to learn without all the features.

The development tool is interesting, I just need to decide on one chip and buy the development board.

Sorry that I am so ignorant, this is really the first day I am looking into this in the last 20 years!!! Everything is new to me. At least I learn MicroChip has a lot of this and I find two that actually look like candidate for me.

Thanks