Xc3s1500-fgg465 FPGA chip

[Gaber Mohamed Boraey]

Hello everyone and greetings

Well, my information at the side of fpga so little, and I’m curcious to know about that subject

I’ve a DVR which is faulty and we are suspecting the fpga chip,

As to what I’ve understood from reading, is that the chip is reconfigured and programmed before using with the device, now can this entire program be crashed?, if so it can be reloaded?, like eeprom? And fix the problem?

Please explain this point for me
Regards

 

[KlausST]

Hi,

It surely can crash. But I don't think it's very likely.

It usually can be reprogrammed. For this it usually needs to be erased completely first.
And for sure you need the suitable programming file, which one normally don't get.

Klaus

 

[dick_freebird]

There are multiple FPGA config schemes (like SRAM vs
nonvolatile (EE / fuse / antifuse). SRAM based has a
long startup chain, external boot ROM / PROM / EEPROM
is an added dependency (EE has a finite retention time).
If you can determine the FPGA family then you can see
what its boot-chain-of-events encompasses.

But quite likely you're better off with a new DVR than a
new, blank FPGA especially as commercial products
will often "capstone" a FPGA (preventing subsequent
write and readback of the programmed code, to thwart
"reverse engineering" by competitors). Some FPGAs have
that feature, especially the nonvolatiles where the code
is carried inside.

If it's a SRAM type and the boot PROM is not compromised
then substituting a fresh FPGA could work - if the FPGA
itself is the problem. In that scheme the "code" and the
"engine" are separate chips. However I believe I've seen
some possibility that the boot stream can be encrypted
and then the fresh FPGA might still need a "bought vowel"
to play?

Stuff for you to chase down, to narrow the field.

 

[Gaber Mohamed Boraey]

There are multiple FPGA config schemes

That’s the part number I have
XC3S1500-FGG456

Does it have internal Rom?

--- Updated Oct 23, 2023 ---

I think it doesn’t have internal eeprom, but external as this part from data sheet say
I’ve attached that part

--- Updated Oct 23, 2023 ---

That’s the board of the dvr, I’ve signed the FPGA chips, it has 3 of same number

Around every FPGA many S-ram , there are two falsch ic, is this where the dvr Firmware stored?, if crashed need download again?

That’s for expensive x-ray machine and the dvr itself is expensive, that’s why we trying to repair for getting it to boot the system

So where you think is the dvr firmware?, and does this FPGA have stored firmware programmed by device manufacturer?

 

[barry]

1) What makes you think the firmware needs to be reloaded? There’s an infinite number of possible causes for your DVR failing.
2) Can you even get the bitfile to reprogram the flash? Highly, HIGHLY unlikely.

Your FPGA is a Spartan, definitely uses an external device to program it. Could use a FLASH, could use a microprocessor.

 

[Gaber Mohamed Boraey]

1) What makes you think the firmware needs to be reloaded? There’s an infinite number of possible causes for your DVR failing.
2) Can you even get the bitfile to reprogram the flash? Highly, HIGHLY unlikely.

At least I know the reason of dvr fail, if it’s hardware issue “ bad component in the board “ or it’s a firmware problem

I think The FPGA have been programmed by chip manufacturer and the device have different firmware , am I right?

 

[KlausST]

At least I know the reason of dvr fail, if it’s hardware issue “ bad component in the board “ or it’s a firmware problem

O.k. this leaves maybe 1000 other possible fails beside the FPGA code.

I think The FPGA have been programmed by chip manufacturer and the device have different firmware , am I right?

Probably not the chip manufacturer.
The code usually comes from the DVR manufacturer.

And it's not a firmware that is processed in software style line by line. It is a hardware configuration (file). It is "processed" all in parallel.
What's in a configuration file is more like a "logic circuit schematic".

The configuration file sits in a serial Flash memory, and at power up the FPGA fetches it's configuration automatically from this memory.

As long as you don't have the configuration laying around (in a memory, or as file combined with a programmer) I recommend not to play around with FPGA and it's configuration. I'd say to make the situation worse is 1000:1!

If you lose the configuration it's about impossible for anybody (besides the DVR manufacturer) to make the DVR run again.
It's not likely that the DVR loses configuration on it's own.

It's more likely that the malfunction is caused by any other failure, that may be repairable. But you can not repair lost configuration data.

Klaus

 

[Gaber Mohamed Boraey]

O.k. this leaves maybe 1000 other possible fails beside the FPGA code.

why 1000 reasons?, it could be the FPGA itself, which I don't think so because no shortage in the circuit or much heat at this part, or can be firmware which now i don't think so
can be external SRAM, which we will change and see

It's more likely that the malfunction is caused by any other failure, that may be repairable. But you can not repair lost configuration data.

right

 

[Gaber Mohamed Boraey]

Your FPGA is a Spartan, definitely uses an external device to program it. Could use a FLASH, could use a microprocessor.

The programming file inside the FPGA or external?

In simple words, if this chip is broken, can I change with another new?, or it must be configured first by dvr manufacturer?

 

[barry]

The programming file inside the FPGA or external?

In simple words, if this chip is broken, can I change with another new?, or it must be configured first by dvr manufacturer?

Do you not know how to read?? You actually quote me: “definitely uses an external device to program it“ and then you ask if the program file is internal.

Im done with this nonsense.

 

[Gaber Mohamed Boraey]

Hello
That’s a FGPA chip, which is broken in electronic device, can it be replaced with new one without programming?, or must be configured first?

Regards

 

[FvM]

The answer has been already given, there's no program inside the FPGA. So yes, it can be replaced. How do you know that exactly the FPGA is defective and nothing else?

 

[Gaber Mohamed Boraey]

The answer has been already given, there's no program inside the FPGA. So yes, it can be replaced. How do you know that exactly the FPGA is defective and nothing else?

Umm , I see now, how I know?, it’s because there are around the fpga some ram chips, two was shorted to ground and we replaced , and it’s the same problem, no booting , that’s why I ask before we replace the fpga chip,

 

[barry]

Umm , I see now, how I know?, it’s because there are around the fpga some ram chips, two was shorted to ground and we replaced , and it’s the same problem, no booting , that’s why I ask before we replace the fpga chip,

‘I crashed my car into a wall. I replaced the damaged headlamps but the car still doesn’t run. I guess that means I need to replace the radio.’

 

[Gaber Mohamed Boraey]

‘I crashed my car into a wall. I replaced the damaged headlamps but the car still doesn’t run. I guess that means I need to replace the radio.’

Why you comment like this?

 

[barry]

Why you comment like this?

Because it’s the same logic, or should I say, lack of logic that you’re using. I asked you why you thought the firmware was bad (post 5). You had no answer. Klaus told you there were 1000 possible causes besides firmware that could be your problem. You ignored him as well.

Trying to help you is like talking to a wall.