Why this doesn't work or can this work ?

[milan.rajik]

Why this doesn't work or can this work ?

I didn't find a topic related to motors and generators and hence I am asking the question here. The thread can be moved to proper topic.

I haven't worked with motors and generators but I have a doubt. I don't remember much of AC and DC machine theory. I have asked many but nobody has given an answer to it.

Some years ago a friend of mine working at Siemens mentioned to me about a problem that was given to him. It was related to big motors. I have only seen motors that stop rotating within few milliseconds after power is removed. But he had told that the problem was a DC motor running at max speed had to be stopped immediately and its direction has to be changed. With this problem I assumed that there are motors which doesn't stop immediately after power is removed but will rotate for say 10 or 15 seconds. Based on this I am asking a question.

The question is for AC motor+ AC generator and also for DC motor + DC generator.

Lets say a AC motor and AC generator shaft is coupled and both motor and generator have 2 + 2 bearings which make them rotate freely and let us assume that the rotor of motor runs for 2 seconds after power is removed. Let there be a DPDT switch which can switch power to motor from either mains or generator. Let there be no load connected to the generator initially.

The motor in turned ON from mains and it rotates the generator and generator after some time say 5 sec generates max power. Then the power to the motor is switched from mains to generator power. Lets assume electronic system is used to switch the power in say 10 ms. Let assume time required for motor to stop rotating after power is removed is 2 second a electronic switch is used to switch power to motor from mains to generator power in 10 ms. Will this result in generator powering (rotating) the motor and motor rotating the generator ? The load will be connected to generator later.

If it doesn't work. Why it doesn't work ? Is the RPM of the shaft the problem which slows down when power is removed ? Can a flywheel connected to the shaft which can make the motor and generator to rotate for a while after mains power is removed to motor make this work ?


Another question is I have seen that if an LED is connected to a DC motor and shaft rotated then LED lights up. So, a dc motor is also a dc generator. Then why a battery connected to dc motor drains after sometime ? I have a battery connected to dc motor and also an LED. LED lights up from battery and also from power generated from dc motor as it rotates (because it lit led when shaft was rotated earlier). Can power generated from DC motor while rotating be used to charge the battery which is powering the motor and make the motor run infinitely ? I know there will be resistive and other power losses.

I have a 12V 600 RPM motor. It runs a little slow when 9V is given. Lets assume the shaft of the 12V motor is rotated mechanically at 600 RPM. Does it result in the generation of 12V ?

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What about ac motor and ac generator having its own flywheels of same dia or generator with a smaller flywheel and belt driven. motor initially runs from mains and both motor and generator reach max rpm. Then power to motor is switched from mains to generator power using electronic switching. Flywheel keeps the shafts rotating id the short 10 ms and again the question will this work ?

Can brushless DC motor work as dc generators ? I just ordered two brushless dc motors (12V) type. Have to use flywheels and try if dc motor+generator pair work. If a motors RPM is 600 then how much the RPM reduce in that 10 ms switching time ?

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Should I couple a 6V 600 RPM dc motor and a 12V dc generator (which generates 12V at 600 RPM) and try ? half of the voltage generated is used to power the motor and other half for other loads. Please somebody provide a technical answer. What if power switching to motor is done in 1 ns ?

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30 views and no replies.

I will try with dc motors and dc generators and will post the result. I feel that in dc system there is no need for high speed switching of battery power to generator power. I also feel that RPM is the main factor. I will power a 6V dc motor with a 6V battery with an SPST switch. Will use a flywheel and belt for the motor and the belt drives the shaft of generator directly so that generator RPM will be more. generator generates 12V. It will be divided to 6.7V and 5.3V. a diode is used to drop the 6.7v to 6v and this 6v will also power the motor. the power sources will be in parallel. the diode makes sure the battery power doesn't flow into dc generator. After 10 sec I open the spst switch and remove the battery power.

If it can't work and somebody knows why it can't then please provide the answer.

 

[D.A.(Tony)Stewart]

It will never work . The motor that stops instantly is without power has a heavy load. The motor load and electrical power required will always exceed the generator supply power unless there is some external source of power.

 

[milan.rajik]

Are you telling that a 6V motor is smaller in size compared to a 6v or 12v dynamo and dc motor requires more torque to drive the dynamos ?

Circuits for switching power to motor.

 

[milan.rajik]

Somebody has done what I was thinking but I am not sure whether these videos are real or fake.

 

[srizbf]

Why this doesn't work or can this work ?
.......

Is the question is this?
i start a motor initially from mains coupled to a generator . the motor mains supply is cut after sometime and motor is connected to generator output.
will the duo run forever ?

 

[milan.rajik]

Yes. That is the question. I had that idea when I was 15 years but never was able to test it.

 

[hexreader]

That video has been discussed on many forums and declared a fake, a scam, total bulls**t.

Motor will deliver power to generator with losses due to friction, heat etc. Generator will power motor with losses, the system will grind to a halt after a short while.

It is perhaps the most common beginner's over-unity / perpetual motion mistake to think that this could ever work.

 

[milan.rajik]

@hexreader

But in that video when at the end power is removed to make it stop then the motor doesn't come to halt suddenly.

Here is another video. Is this also fake ?

 

[srizbf]

Yes. That is the question. I had that idea when I was 15 years but never was able to test it.

it will not work.
this idea comes to all who study motor and generator.

 

[hexreader]

Not everything that you see on the internet is true.

I repeat: That video is a fake!

But go ahead and try it for yourself if you don't believe me. It will be very easy to replicate.


and yes..... the other video is fake too (yawn)

 

[KlausST]

Hi,

From all that we know about energy ... a perpetuum mobile is impossible.

There are many videos showing the opposite. They are all fake or they are not taking all related energy into account.
For many people it is hard to believe. And there are a lot of conspiracy theries around that big companies try to hide all the ideas.

Every system you want to harvest energy from you have to put more input to the system than you get.
Exepitions are atomic plants and nuclear fusion power plants (not currently running yet), where energy is produced by the loss of mass according e = m c^2

All this said should not discourage you from having new ideas. Maybe working on one idea results in a new sensational discovery.

Klaus

 

[milan.rajik]

This is a little different but it is a free energy video. I feel this one is genuine video.

 

[hexreader]

I feel this one is genuine video.

:bang:

........

 

[milan.rajik]

@hexreader

Sorry. If I made you bang your head. I am just trying to make one similar setup.

Here is one more video. This is not about generating power but this can be used to make a powerless fan.

Now I am going to get some old HDDs to extract the magnets to test this. The magnets used are from HDDs.

 

[KlausST]

Hi,

If we are able to use this "free energy" (if it really exists) then all our energy problem is solved.

If i invented such a thing, i surely would use it to produce all of my needed energy (electrical energy, heating, car...) and try to earn my money with it.
I'd additionally store my invention with some of my ralatives in different countries and they should use it and hand it to tv stations if something "happens" to me.

I wonder: there are many videos of those inventions, bu why don't they even use it to produce their own energy nor do they try to earn money with it?

Klaus

 

[Easyrider83]

Perhaps, you should read more about "total energy remains constant" law. Or at least finish a school.

 

[BradtheRad]

I suspect people create these videos in hopes of getting funding.

They have to make it convincing, so they put some effort into exercising a certain amount of artistry. And it is fun to watch.

However there was a comment at one of these videos, saying if the inventor wants to be truly convincing, he will construct the table of clear material, and the mechanism of clear material.

Otherwise count on there being hidden magnets, or hidden batteries, to create the 'perpetual' motion.

 

[D.A.(Tony)Stewart]

I believe the energy is stored in the rare earth magnets.

 

[E-design]

The James Randi Educational Foundation has offered for many years a one million dollar prize to anyone who could successfully demonstrate supernatural powers, perpetual motion, etc. under controlled conditions.

Although many people applied for the challenge, nobody actually managed to pass the preliminary test phase of their claims.