Use PICKit 3 as ICSP for PICAXE?

[Cillakin]

Hello friends,

Recently I have tried my hands at using microcontrollers:-(, not just PIC™ microcontrollers but PICAXE™ & Atmel™ chips as well. I would have liked to try Propeller but not a lot of good reviews. Since I've started this new chapter of electronics I've got a lot of parts...lots.of.parts. My goal is to somehow use one system for both the PIC™ microcontrollers (Models will be listed below) and the PICAXE's™. The 3.5mm Audio Jack seems very uncharacteristic as a serial port/transfer to the PICAXE™. I just flat out think it's stupid. And the USB Programming cable is very expensive for such a simple device. Herein lies my goal and project/idea. I'll elaborate further. (If you want the quick-n-dirty just scroll to the bottom)

First, my goal is to combine parts/components to make more efficient use out of my devices, regardless of manufacturer or type as far as PIC™/PICAXE™ is concerned. Since PICAXE's™ are PIC™ microcontrollers with some tweaking and what not, there must exist a way to use a more efficient method of transfer. The thing that immediately comes to mind is the PICKit 3™ that I already have. Using this to somehow design a means to program the PICAXE™ would be amazing. It's simple, easy, and something that I'm somewhat familiar with. Using this dongle to that to get to there is just pointless, redundant, and counter-productive in my opinion; thus the need for simplicity.

My first idea was to build off the USB from my computer (I use Ubuntu 13.04) and connect to a universal board, which can output to any other board/controller via another USB or headers or really whatever fits the goal of simple and meets the users need. In my case the need is to get everything to USB. Get everything in sync, on the same page and still fulfill each controllers individual roles of programming, respectively.

This leads me to this breakout board: USB PICAXE Programmer™. As it appears to me there doesn't appear to be anything not allowing me to do this. I would still dump the audiojack for a a set of headers. The problem I'm having is determining if the PICAXE™ chips, since they were originally PIC™ microcontrollers from MicroChip©, can be programmed via the PICKit 3™. Data is data, so long as it enters the way it should and is supposed to I can't see why this is not do-able.

Prior knowledge of PIC™ microcontrollers and PICAXE's™ tells me that despite the obvious differences, there doesn't appear to be any reason why I cannot transfer code from computer to either of the two. Yes they use different languages and different means to upload code to the controller, however transferring is transferring. If it's simple, complex, original or redundant it still has the same outcome. I just cannot find an obvious reason for this not to work. Search results via DuckDuckGo.com© yielded very little to nothing in terms and scope of this project. With that being said I'm not even sure it's really been suggested before (I'm probably wrong but I couldn't immediately find anything saying otherwise). If I could get this to work it would drastically reduce the number of crap I have to keep track of, and also means I'm not doubling up on a lot of wires/cords (very convenient).

One thing I did find interesting was this video from YouTube™: Link.
Credit to the Author listed in the URL.

So to recap...8-O


Can the PICKit 3™ be interfaced with and to the PICAXE™ systems for a means of data transfer?
Will the breakout-board from SparkFun™ aid or hinder this idea?
Can the audio jack be removed/replaced by some other means?


Any suggestions are greatly appreciated! Out of respect: I am posting this to other forums, as I am loyal to the electronics community (whom we all are), not websites.:grin:

 

[Telbee]

You can use PicKit3 to program a PicAxe but only if you're using it as a basic PIC. The picaxe is a PIC with a bootloader designed to use the 3.5mm serial jack thing. As for everything else, it seems an incredibly complex solution to a simple problem. Why not have a box to put each controller/programmer pair into, rather than creating a whole "usb universal board" - Keep it simple!

 

[Cillakin]

You can use PicKit3 to program a PicAxe but only if you're using it as a basic PIC. The picaxe is a PIC with a bootloader designed to use the 3.5mm serial jack thing. As for everything else, it seems an incredibly complex solution to a simple problem. Why not have a box to put each controller/programmer pair into, rather than creating a whole "usb universal board" - Keep it simple!

You're absolutely correct in that the PK3 will overwrite the bootstrap loaded on the PICAXE. It's not so much complex as it is hard to describe. The project can be dumbed down even further if you neglect going to transparency between the PIC & PICAXE. I don't use Atmel chips hardly at all now (I don't like the restriction of Arduino). Basically what I wish to accomplish, especially with this forums help, is to come up with a design and share the be-jesus out of it. This is a real issue with these boards and the lack of serial ports on more and more computers. Now that the Laptop segment is dominating "PC" sales is becomes more and more likely that there will be a real lack of the quick-n-easy method of serial to serial. A quick glance at the Sparkfun section under anything PICAXE and it won't be to long before a trend starts to appear. The USB Program cable is way over-priced which puts a lot of potential buyers into non-buyers. My assumption is that most people on this forum have a passion for electronics and to some extent open-source open hardware based software/hardware.

An explanation for why not do the current method is that I plan on buying this for my brother-in-law but I really, really think the process of programming will confuse him quite a bit. This is why I also want to do this project, to help save headache and confusion for new PICAXE users (especially children).

Back to the guts of the project.

While browsing eBay for ideas (amazed at what people list on there) I came across a product called OMS USB Programmer for PICAXE. It is essentially exactly what I am looking for. However I cannot find any schematics or really any specific list of parts other then the USB connector and passive components. Perhaps there exist a way to use a male end USB connector attached to a 3.5mm connector or RS232 connector. I'm still lost as to why a 3.5mm Audio Jack is used/needed. Any clarity on this would be great.

Also, and if this can be answered it would greatly help me out, is that just like PICs you have your VSS/VDD and DataIN DataOUT lines. PICAXE goes a step further and just uses 3 wires via the audio jack. Why is an audio jack needed and used? If you just connect the appropriate wires to their corresponding pins it should work yes? Either the CMOS/TTL communication needs a fix or something. That YouTube video also showed him using a hex inverter to get the stuff in sync or something, I am not exactly sure why he used it other then to flip the signal or something to that extent.

My overall goal is just to make something that can save people, including myself, a lot of time and headache, and especially $$$. Whether it's a headache for me now doesn't really matter, I just want to accomplish something that helps people out. That's the objective: help the community.