ADS: How to see the Noise parameters and S-parametres of the microwave transistors

[btv_murthy]

Dear Sir,
In ADS 2009 simulation software, how to see the noise parameters and S-parameters of any microwave transistor. If we go to component library in ADS2009, can see the different companies transistors and can place selected transistors to the working space easily. How to see their noise and s-parametes,which option I need to use in ADS to observe those. For example in MWO Avago ATF34143 transistor noise and s-parameters showed below. Similarly I want to observe noise and S-parameters of AGILENT ATF34143 in ADS. Can you help me anybody.

 

[BigBoss]

In first picture, Noise parameters are seen obviously..
Fmin, Gamma(Opt) Mag,Ang and Rn/Zo..

 

[btv_murthy]

Dear Sir,
Those pictures are from AWR Microwave office simulation software, similarly how we can see those parameters in ADS.

 

[jeeudr]

In your S-parameter simulation box, set CalcNoise = yes

After solving, you can get your obtained noise figure by plotting nf(2). The minimum noise figure can be plotted by NFmin.

Take a look at this pdf: [ **broken link removed** ]. Especially last paragraph of page 11.

 

[btv_murthy]

jeeudr Sir,
I understood, what you said. I went through ADS tutorial, that is more useful. I need to observe .S2P company file. For example, I showed in my first posting of AVAGO company transistor ATF 34143,it shows its company noise and S-parameters.Similarly in ADS can't see the noise and s-parameters AGILENT ATF34143. One option I found in ADS, we can go to component library and pick the desired transistor and place it on the working space of software, how we have to see the noise and s-paramerts of company generated .S2Pfile. Can you help me.

 

[jeeudr]

A .s2p file is just a text document. Did you try opening it with Notepad ? You should be able to read through the values. Try it and see if you can read off the GammaOpt or other parameters you require.

 

[btv_murthy]

Dear Sir,
Notepad file only, I need it. If we search in internet , we will get the data sheet. But in ADS simulation, where .S2P data file is availble

 

[Ow@i$]

Have a look at this document, it shows how to import and play around the S-parameter file in ADS!!!

 

[jeeudr]

Dear Sir,
Notepad file only, I need it. If we search in internet , we will get the data sheet. But in ADS simulation, where .S2P data file is availble

Ok. I misunderstood your question. If you already have a .s2p file, you can follow the instructions of the previous post i.e. Use a S2P item available in the Data Items toolbox.

 

[RealAEL]

Agilent ADS has not included the source S2P files for devices with s-parameter models for well over 10 years I believe. Instead the data is packaged in a set library files that are used during simulation of such devices. So to that end there doesn't appear to be any way to simply browse to or read this data.

For the ATF-34143 device specifically though all may not be lost. Hewlett-Packard/Agilent/Avago have always distributed a datasheet for this device that contains s-parameter data including the necessary noise parameters.

ATF-34143 SC-70 (SOT-343) Low Noise 31.5 dBm OIP3

This data does not appear to have change now for many years. The data that you show from the MWO entry for the device matches exactly the data from the datasheet for one of those published bias points, Vds 3V @ Id 20mA. So one has to suspect that MWO is simply reusing the manufacturer's measured data off that datasheet. It is also possible from the above link to download actual s-parameter datafiles from Avago including:

**broken link removed**

Which also exactly matches the MWO data.

One important piece of reference information from both these sources is the second comment line in the datafile which shows it to be "LAST UPDATED 01-29-99". This data is over 14 years old.

Now if we look at the devices in the ADS Component Library list you will see that there are five different variants of the data for Vds=2V Id=20mA, Vds=3V Id=20mA, Vds=3V Id=40mA, Vds=4V Id=40mA and Vds=4V Id=60mA. Exactly the same bias points as are available as s-parameter data to download from the Avago website. More importantly though the components all include the suffix in their name of "_19990129". This is the date of that data and it exactly matches the "Last Updated" date in the s-parameter files from Avago and MWO. Too much of a coincidence. So I would say that ADS is also using exactly the same s-parameter data as is still published by Avago and also available in MWO.

See also <ADS Installation Dir>/ComponentLibs/models/sp_hp99.library and find the lines immediately following the first match for "sp_hp_ATF-34143_3_19990129".

 

[btv_murthy]

RealAEL Sir,

You are saying that we can't see any microwave transistors S-parameters and noise parameters datas in ADS2009. We must have to download the datasheet from internet and notice the noise parameters and S-parameters.

- - - Updated - - -

RealAEL Sir,

You are saying that we can't see any microwave transistors S-parameters and noise parameters datas in ADS2009. We must have to download the datasheet from internet and notice the noise parameters and S-parameters.

 

[biff44]

here is the file:

 

[RealAEL]

Your use of the description "any microwave transistors" needs a bit of clarification as really that is too broad a description to have a single answer.



As the above picture shows there can be two different types of microwave transistor that can be used in ADS for the ATF34143 for example. The one on the left uses and non-linear (Spice type) model. The one on the right uses s-parameter based simulation models and there are a set of different models that are based on measurement performed at various different bias situations.

In the first case with the non-linear model there is no s-parameter data associated with that model use. There is nothing to consider. That model was extracted from a set of s-parameter measurements, and other measured data, but once that extraction is done the source s-parameter data is superfluous for use of these non-linear models.

The second case is the only case that still uses the s-parameter data including noise parameters when available. The way that the s-parameter based model libraries are implemented in ADS though is such that it does not appear that there is any way that the source data that the simulation uses can be browsed and viewed within ADS. This data is not stored in separate text files like the original measured s-parameter data files but in its own proprietary format.

 

[btv_murthy]

RealAEL Sir,
I am sorry that word I used as " any microwave transistor". How we can browse and view the s-parameter data including noise parameters, can you help me view the own proprietary format in ADS. I am very much eager to observe the s-parameters data including noise parameters in ADS , can you help me.

 

[RealAEL]

This absolutely cannot be done from within ADS. It is not possible to browse to and read this source data.

If you read my post #10 above carefully you will see the way to do this outside ADS for the ATF34143 with Vds=3V and Id=40mA or use sp_hp_ATF-34143_2_19990129 for the ATF34143 with Vds=3V and Id=20mA. What you will see, however, is data that is EXACTLY the same as you see from the manufacturer's data and the same data as you originally posted from MWO.