2.4GHz or 5.2GHz IFA (Inverted "F" Antenna),who ha

[eirp]

yellowtooth,
I am working with a+g antennas too.
I simulated the dual band F(Wang) and IF(Greece) antennas in hf$$ and got results very close to the two papers.Maybe two sepperated sweep bands or more meshes for high band are better.
In hf$$v9 it is very easy to change the length using parameters,while in V8, macro languages is needed to using parameters.u can find it in file->macro->history menu. Of coure ,ur method works too. Hf$$ runs well in a high frequency.

Kayaoo,

please can you upload some of your projects in hf$$ 9? We need more examples on antennas
Thanks in advance,
Eirp

 

[Element7k]

Hi kayaoo,

did you simulate Printed inverted-F antennas (Wong)? If yes, did it have a resonance in 5.2GHz band?

For 2 frequency bands, I have used 10 adaptive passes and set convergence to 0.0001 to get result close to C/S/T. Then I look inside the mesh and found that the antenna structure wasn't very well meshed. I was wondering how can I improve the mesh in the metal (e.g. The F-structure) in H/F/S/S 9.0? Used to be able to do it but now seem a little difficult in new version. Hope you can help.

Cheers,
Element7k

yellowtooth,
I am working with a+g antennas too.
I simulated the dual band F(Wang) and IF(Greece) antennas in hf$$ and got results very close to the two papers.Maybe two sepperated sweep bands or more meshes for high band are better.
In hf$$v9 it is very easy to change the length using parameters,while in V8, macro languages is needed to using parameters.u can find it in file->macro->history menu. Of coure ,ur method works too. Hf$$ runs well in a high frequency.

 

[wolf303]

Element7k

hi Element7k
thank you for your reply,i know a lot from you.
i think i will not go on if no simulating model. But i can not get the commerical HFSS.I can only download the free hfss sv.It can not simulate the anttena,i think. I have read an article about pifa model,can you spare some time to read it,give some suggestion,ok?

I am from china,so my english is poor.hope you will not joke me!

 

[yellowtooth]

kayaoo

Thank U 4 Ur imformation.

Maybe it is the key problem that I donot know how 2 set the prameter correctly.

And indeed I used one freq band from 2GHz though 6GHz .


By the way , I have not seen HF$$9.0 yet, do U mean Ans0ft designer 9.0 ?

 

[Element7k]

Hi all,

here is the return loss simulation plots of the Printed IFA (Wong) in C/S/T & H/F/S/S.

I am not sure if H/F/S/S simulations are accurate over broadband but the comparison seems quite ok to me.

Antenna parameters in SAT format. If anyone can optimise the antenna, pls share new parameters.

Many thanks.

Cheers,
Element7k

 

[eirp]

Hi all,

here is the return loss simulation plots of the Printed IFA (Wong) in C/S/T & H/F/S/S.

I am not sure if H/F/S/S simulations are accurate over broadband but the comparison seems quite ok to me.

Antenna parameters in SAT format. If anyone can optimise the antenna, pls share new parameters.

Many thanks.

Cheers,
Element7k

Dear Element7k,

please can you post your hf$$ project also?
You know I'm still curious about pml settings there.
Thanks in advance, buddy!!

Best,

Eirp

 

[Element7k]

Hi EIRP!,

I was intending to do that but files are too big (75MB) :? When I have time I will detail the steps I took in H/F/S/S in pdf and hopefully everyone can have a look and then give some comments, point out any mistake or any improvements that can be made to the simulation. 8)

I didn't use PML for this project. However, I can imagine that it cannot be very much different. I will think instead of a lambda/4 box, you can use a lambda/10 box.

Cheers,
Element7k

Dear Element7k,

please can you post your hf$$ project also?
You know I'm still curious about pml settings there.
Thanks in advance, buddy!!

Best,

Eirp

 

[yellowtooth]

Is there any way to UL the HF$$ files in minimum size ?

Maybe it will be smaller when not including the smulated results.

Then we can all UL the files for discussing.

But I am not very farmilar with it, so I do not know which file should be included.

Does anyone could do us a favor ? Thank U.

 

[goxy]

I was intending to do that but files are too big (75MB)

Try to upload only *.hfss file :wink:

 

[kayaoo]

hi all,
I simulated the three antenna. the simulation of Wong's dualband F-shape monopole antenna shows a good accord. Karakoussis's dualband invert-f antenna has a slight offset in resonating frequencies. but when the thickness is tuned from .2mm to .7mm the result is then ok. (I think .2mm is too thin to support such a pcb antenna).
however the simulation of wong's dualband invert-f antenna gets a quite different result which shows the antenna has a resonate frequency in about 2.7G and NO obvious resonate in 5G band and the low band is relatively narrow.Two things are not mentioned in the paper which are the short via structure and the feed structure.further more,I had toke it for granted that all the metalstrips in the F structure owned a same width (3.05mm) until i found Element7k's ".Sat" file. But how did u know all the dimensions which is not mentioned in the papers? The s11 plot in the paper shows the antenna has some benificial parasitic effects which may come from the feeding coaxial cabble or anything else and lead to a very wide band in 2.4G. I don't know why.
to yellowtooth: In v8,u can first copy the project in the project manager when u can select the "copy project only" selection. this selection will make a small project without result.
btw, I'm not good at C$t MW$ but in my first tries the sw seemed much slower than HF$$ in simulating the antennas mentioned above. My MW$ is v3.2 and HF$$ v9. Is that true?

 

[eirp]

hi all,
I simulated the three antenna. the simulation of Wong's dualband F-shape monopole antenna shows a good accord. Karakoussis's dualband invert-f antenna has a slight offset in resonating frequencies. but when the thickness is tuned from .2mm to .7mm the result is then ok. (I think .2mm is too thin to support such a pcb antenna).
however the simulation of wong's dualband invert-f antenna gets a quite different result which shows the antenna has a resonate frequency in about 2.7G and NO obvious resonate in 5G band and the low band is relatively narrow.Two things are not mentioned in the paper which are the short via structure and the feed structure.further more,I had toke it for granted that all the metalstrips in the F structure owned a same width (3.05mm) until i found Element7k's ".Sat" file. But how did u know all the dimensions which is not mentioned in the papers? The s11 plot in the paper shows the antenna has some benificial parasitic effects which may come from the feeding coaxial cabble or anything else and lead to a very wide band in 2.4G. I don't know why.
to yellowtooth: In v8,u can first copy the project in the project manager when u can select the "copy project only" selection. this selection will make a small project without result.
btw, I'm not good at C$t MW$ but in my first tries the sw seemed much slower than HF$$ in simulating the antennas mentioned above. My MW$ is v3.2 and HF$$ v9. Is that true?

Just to note - actual version of MWS is 4.3. V3.2 is toooooo obsolete!
Eirp

 

[wolf303]

hfss 8.0

can hfss 8.0 simulate the printed ifa?all of you work through hfss 9.0?

 

[Element7k]

Re: hfss 8.0

can hf$$ 8.0 simulate the printed ifa?all of you work through hf$$ 9.0?

If 9 can do so can 8. Thanks for the reference but sorry no time to read thesis yet but initial browse through the thesis, I saw the equations that can help you estimate the size of the PIFA, I guess using those equations, u can use matlab to simulated standard shaped PIFA for various frequency.

Cheers,
Element7k

 

[Element7k]

But how did u know all the dimensions which is not mentioned in the papers?

Hi all/Kayaoo,

at 1st simulation using the parameters in the paper, I obtained similar result (like yours) where there is only slight resonance at 5 Ghz. So, I looked at antenna impedance using deembedding. The "dude" :lol: in the paper did mention 4 "convenience" :lol: so I assume he had no time or "lazy" (like me) to publish the correct dimensions. After some adjustments I obtained the strips dimensions with some compromise in impedance to the lower band. I guess someone can use optimetrics to obtain a better S11. :idea:

btw, I'm not good at C$t MW$ but in my first tries the sw seemed much slower than HF$$ in simulating the antennas mentioned above. My MW$ is v3.2 and HF$$ v9. Is that true?

My observation, 4 broadband simulation, HF$$ does not perform as well as C/s/T. In initial sweep with low accuracy, C/s/T produced both resonance in < 2/3 min on a normal spec machine. HF$$ needed increased mesh b4 I obtained accurate result. I think in MW$ 3.2 they have not introduced P/B/A with thin sheet mesh so maybe that is why it is slower.

Cheers,
Element7k

 

[wolf303]

Element7k

Dear Element7k:
how can i open your *.sat file in hfss8.0? can?
can you upload your project(hfss 8.0) about printed ifa simulation?without being solved i think the size is small. i need your help!
i do not know how to draw the model and set the boundary?do you have some example about printed antenna simulation?

 

[Element7k]

Re: Element7k

Hi Wolf303,

I am sorry but H/F/S/S 8.0 cannot open the *.sat file.

I have done the printed IF@ in v9.0 so I do not have v8 file.

My advice is to try and work out the getting started manual first then you should be able to navigate through v8 quite easily.

E.g. if you do a search you will find e.g.:

**broken link removed**

and many others HFSS examples. Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Element7k

Dear Element7k:
how can i open your *.sat file in hfss8.0? can?
can you upload your project(hfss 8.0) about printed ifa simulation?without being solved i think the size is small. i need your help!
i do not know how to draw the model and set the boundary?do you have some example about printed antenna simulation?

 

[yellowtooth]

Re: 2.4GHz or 5.2GHz IFA (Inverted "F" Antenna),wh

UL my design for all the people to disguss.

 

[yellowtooth]

Re: 2.4GHz or 5.2GHz IFA (Inverted "F" Antenna),wh

The thickness is changed for better performance.

 

[kayaoo]

Re: 2.4GHz or 5.2GHz IFA (Inverted "F" Antenna),wh

hi yellowtooth,
i simulated the second one in hf$$v9(import it and nothing changed). the result is somehow different.i dont know why.the model is too simplified,i think, especially the feed. why not build one more precise.
sincerely,
kayaoo

 

[yellowtooth]

Re: 2.4GHz or 5.2GHz IFA (Inverted "F" Antenna),wh

I have not HFSS9.0 by now , so I donot know what happen.

But I think 9.0 should be compatible with 8.0.

Maybe my design is wrong somewhere.

Do U have better example ?