Question about Generator Magnet.

[StraightView]

Hi everyone, I'm intending to build a generator driven by 220v motor but the biggest size magnet I have right now in the picture below, I still don't know if I can generate 220v with it (it's a magnet of motorcycle generator).

I know that the coils's size, the iron core's size and the motor speed plays an important role about the voltage produced, but for now I just would like to know if the magnet size in the picture can generate 220v?!, I was planning to work on it and test it but I thought to try ask for advice first.
thanks for your help.

 

[High school electronics e]

I don't think so. Motorcycle magneto coils only produce about 20 volts

 

[StraightView]

I don't think so. Motorcycle magneto coils only produce about 20 volts

Hi, thanks for replying. I know that the coils of motorcycle generator can't produce 220v I can made other coils with high value, but I'm talking about the size of the magnet if it can produce 220v with the right coils?.

 

[betwixt]

More turns on the coil = more voltage.
However, it doesn't necessarily mean more power. You might get a higher voltage but lower current capability, there are many variables so an exact figure isn't easy to quote. For the same amount of mechanical (rotational) input you will probably get slightly less power out with more turns because of other losses but a good estimate will be the same number of Watts as the original coil produced. Add together the headlamp and tail lamp power of the motorcycle to get the original load it was designed for.

Brian.

 

[High school electronics e]

Hi, thanks for replying. I know that the coils of motorcycle generator can't produce 220v I can made other coils with high value, but I'm talking about the size of the magnet if it can produce 220v with the right coils?.

Specifically, when the number of turns of the coil increases, the electromotive force value of the electromagnetic induction phenomenon will also increase. Therefore, the more turns of the coil, the higher the voltage induced by it, in theory

 

[KlausST]

Hi.

Output voltage becomes increased by:
* increasing winding count
* increasing magnetic field
* increasing RPM

Klaus

 

[StraightView]

More turns on the coil = more voltage.
However, it doesn't necessarily mean more power. You might get a higher voltage but lower current capability, there are many variables so an exact figure isn't easy to quote. For the same amount of mechanical (rotational) input you will probably get slightly less power out with more turns because of other losses but a good estimate will be the same number of Watts as the original coil produced. Add together the headlamp and tail lamp power of the motorcycle to get the original load it was designed for.

Brian.

Hi Brian nice talking to you again.
I understand that more turns of the coil increase the Voltage but I was wondering if that magnet in the picture can produce 220v with the right coils?!, I think I understand from your reply and other members replies that it can produce 220v?, also you have mentioned the power, so I would like to ask, if I faced lower power can I fixed with making several coils with larger wire connected tougher or by increasing the size of the magnet?!.
Thank you Brian.

--- Updated Oct 6, 2023 ---

Specifically, when the number of turns of the coil increases, the electromotive force value of the electromagnetic induction phenomenon will also increase. Therefore, the more turns of the coil, the higher the voltage induced by it, in theory

I understood, I'm working to make 10 coils connected together to make sure of getting high voltage and power. Thanks again.

--- Updated Oct 6, 2023 ---

Hi.

Output voltage becomes increased by:
* increasing winding count
* increasing magnetic field
* increasing RPM

Klaus

Hi Klaus, so it's about the all three factors, I understand from you that to make sure of getting high voltage and power I must increase the all factors as much possible. I'm working now on the coils's core and as I was worried about ending with low voltage and power after a lot of work so I'm making a core of 10 coils connected togheter, do you think that would be enough?.
Thank you Klaus.

 

[StraightView]

I finished making this humble Alternator in the picture below, I made it from using a big 220v fan which it has made to used it and installed in ceilings of rooms, so I have tested it, but the result is like a joke!!, it is 23 volts AC!!!!, and it can't even turn up a relay of 12v after I rectified the output!!!!!, this is a joke,
I am confused, before testing it, I was convinced that I will get much voltage, much ampers at least I expected to get 100 volts AC or closer to that with much ampers due to the size of the Alternator, you can see in the picture the size of the Alternator and how many coils and magnets there!!!! Also, the speed of the motor is relatively high it's 1400 RPM!!!.
Could the reason be the size of the magnets? small and has a weak magnetic force?! Or is it the size of the copper wire diameter.......?!.
I thank and appreciate the help of anyone has any advice on this issue.

 

[betwixt]

Sorry if I'm going blind but please explain which part is stationary and which part rotates. It looks from the photographs as though the magnets are bonded to the coils.

What are the wires looped around the magnets?

Brian.

 

[StraightView]

Sorry if I'm going blind but please explain which part is stationary and which part rotates. It looks from the photographs as though the magnets are bonded to the coils.

What are the wires looped around the magnets?

Brian.

Hi Brian nice to meet you, the coils are stationary, the magnets rotates, you can see in the second picture that black piece of iron which is in circle form where the magnets are installed, that it's rotate, the magnets rotate.
I appreciate your time Brian.

 

[BradtheRad]

fan which it has made to used it and installed in ceilings of rooms

I read that ceiling fans are designed to be inefficient so they turn slowly (as compared to AC motors which are made to spin rapidly under load).

I think it has to do with the arrangement of windings for ceiling fans. To some degree they oppose each other, thus using inductive impedance and not resistive impedance.

 

[betwixt]

I agree with Brad on this, the design is not intended to produce high power. The resistance of the wire alone will limit the output power.

Another question regarding the magnets (from magnetrons?) are they all aligned the same way or do they alternate? Electromagnetics are not my field of expertise but I wonder if the power you are generating is just from the rise and fall of field due to alignment with the magnet core or whether you are seeing a complete field reversal.

I'm not happy about the magnets being mounted on wires either, it looks to much like shorted turns in the field for my liking. A plastic cord might be a better idea.

Brian.

 

[StraightView]

I read that ceiling fans are designed to be inefficient so they turn slowly (as compared to AC motors which are made to spin rapidly under load).

I think it has to do with the arrangement of windings for ceiling fans. To some degree they oppose each other, thus using inductive impedance and not resistive impedance.

Hello, I appreciate your help, you are right, this fun rotates slowly.
I believe what you said could solve the problem, I didn't have any idea about the arrangement of windings in these kind of fun until you explain it perfectly, I will start by changing the coils.
Thanks a lot.

 

[KlausST]

Hi,

I didn't have any idea about the arrangement of windings in these kind of fun until you explain it perfectly,

building generators is about 150 years old. It follows simple rules of physics. All well known, no secrets. No need to guess.One knows how to orient the magnets and the coils. One can calculate the torque, the voltage, the current...

My way is: learning the theory, deciding what to build, do the math, do the drawings..... Straight forward.
I personally don´t like the "trial and fail" methods, because they take much longer and give only mediocre results - if ever.
As said - just my way.

You are free to go your own way.

Klaus

 

[StraightView]

I agree with Brad on this, the design is not intended to produce high power. The resistance of the wire alone will limit the output power.

Another question regarding the magnets (from magnetrons?) are they all aligned the same way or do they alternate? Electromagnetics are not my field of expertise but I wonder if the power you are generating is just from the rise and fall of field due to alignment with the magnet core or whether you are seeing a complete field reversal.

I'm not happy about the magnets being mounted on wires either, it looks to much like shorted turns in the field for my liking. A plastic cord might be a better idea.

Brian.

Yes, after I've read what Brad said explaining the way these coils made I totally understand now, I didn't have any idea of this fun arrangement windings so this is a new important information I learned.
I didn't fully understood your question about the magnets, I'm not 100% good in English but I think you are talking about the North/South of magnet and if I installed them correctly or not, if this is what you meant?, I know about this matter and I toke it in count I was careful about it which means I installed them correctly, each magnet is opposing the other magnet which is in front of it.
I used these wires to help hold the magnets in their place, I was working quickly just to see the result but I will make changes since these coils are not up to this job as Alternator.

--- Updated Oct 20, 2023 ---

Hi

building generators is about 150 years old. It follows simple rules of physics. All well known, no secrets. No need to guess.One knows how to orient the magnets and the coils. One can calculate the torque, the voltage, the current...

My way is: learning the theory, deciding what to build, do the math, do the drawings..... Straight forward.
I personally don´t like the "trial and fail" methods, because they take much longer and give only mediocre results - if ever.
As said - just my way.

You are free to go your own way.

Klaus

Hi Klaus,
I agree, definitely the method that you mentioned and follow is the ideal method for learning and professionalism, but unfortunately I personally not available to follow all of those steps for the reason that I have many other daily life things that I must think and work on, so I follow this shortened method for time according to my personal experience, also like I have said before (electronics is just a hobby for me and I like it a lot, but I can't put more efforts than what I'm already doing).
with all humility, perhaps you will not believe the circuits I built before and the circuits which I can build even though I have never studied electricity, electronics in my life, I can even build a drone from scratch, both the mechanical and electronic parts (already my profession is mechanics), and without using any chip/IC just using regular components (transistors, resistors.........) and using motors taking from other devices, In fact I have already designed it in my mind several times, knowing that I have never seen a diagram of a drone circuits in my life, and I did not try to look for it, because as you know, it does not exist on the Internet in the first place, and even if there's a diagram of drone's circuits it would contain chips/IC which you cannot know what is going on inside it.
By the way, I'm not talking about a nice looking drone with all that options like companies made, but it will do the job.
The only problem that I would face is the wireless communication "RF" which I still in the beginning of learning it, I know many things about "RF" but still far away from making successful RF transceiver circuits, also I still not sure if I understood how speed circuits works, because I still not searched about it but I have in my mind some ideas on how to make circuits for motors speed but I'm not sure if correct or not.

the thing is, from the first days I started searching and learning about electronics as soon as I understood the basics and how the components works I didn't found any problems to design any circuit without even seeing any diagram as example or asking for advice, the only problems that I still face is about circuits of wireless communication RF not IR, I have made successfully IR circuits which I have controlled a 220v light bulb from 5 meter or more and I believe that I have read in internet that IR can't cover all this distance if I'm correct,
also the other problem I still facing is about circuits of converting power from level to another level specifically increasing power or circuits that controls high power devices such as 220v motors........

 

[KlausST]

Hi,

I guess one of the most challenging parts for a complete drone design is to control 3D movement, rotation and stand still in the air. Without ICs .. not my way. I think ICs make it more easy, reliable, precise and still faster to build.
And for a drone you need batteries. If you control the motors analog style then the driver will waste a lot of energy, generating heat and draining out the battery too fast.

There should be plenty of documents in the internet on how to build a properly working drone.

But if you like the challenge - I won´t stop you in this.

Klaus

 

[StraightView]

Hi,

I guess one of the most challenging parts for a complete drone design is to control 3D movement, rotation and stand still in the air. Without ICs .. not my way. I think ICs make it more easy, reliable, precise and still faster to build.
And for a drone you need batteries. If you control the motors analog style then the driver will waste a lot of energy, generating heat and draining out the battery too fast.

There should be plenty of documents in the internet on how to build a properly working drone.

But if you like the challenge - I won´t stop you in this.

Klaus

yes I agree, the IC is everything in now days circuits they also play a huge role in reducing devices's body, like in drone I was talking about the remote will be like the computer's keyboard, or larger.
It's not easy, I have thought about it and even designed it in mind many times but it will take a lot of time and work especially I was thinking of using components from other old devices which means it will add more challenges, because I don't think they sell drone parts in my city, and even if they do it will be expensive is like you are buying a drone.
But as I said I'm not planning to make one right now, I also still not capable of making successful RF circuits, so there's no point of starting making one until I get completely RF transceivers circuits.

 

[KlausST]

Hi

RF remote components are available ready to buy. For every category in price.
Arduino modules are cheap and software will also be available for drone control.
But I understood it's your way to somehow reinvent the wheel... your own way.
Nothing wrong with this.

Klaus

 

[StraightView]

Hi,

I guess one of the most challenging parts for a complete drone design is to control 3D movement, rotation and stand still in the air. Without ICs .. not my way. I think ICs make it more easy, reliable, precise and still faster to build.
And for a drone you need batteries. If you control the motors analog style then the driver will waste a lot of energy, generating heat and draining out the battery too fast.

There should be plenty of documents in the internet on how to build a properly working drone.

But if you like the challenge - I won´t stop you in this.

Klaus

I don't think that the 3D movement is much challenging, at least according to my imagination, I may be completely wrong.
According to what I imagined, “If the drone has 4 propeller motors, each motor is carried by a moving body, or we can even create a mechanism that holds the four motors inside the drone's body that allows the propeller motors to be tilted forward, backward, right and left, and there are two other motors connected to the mechanism I mentioned that work to move the four motors forward, backwards, right and left.
This is my perception of the 3D movement, but if you mean the drone turning on itself, then I think that it happens by moving two motors and tilting them in the direction you want and leaving the other two or moving them and tilting them in the opposite direction or something like that.
But I haven't tried all of this, it's just what I imagine.
But I haven't tried all of this, it's just what I imagine, so I can be totally wrong.

I will think about the offer you mentioned of the RF components I appreciate that, but I'm not planning to make a drone now, in the future.

 

[KlausST]

Hi,

Most (all) drones work without tilting the motors.
They just control the RPM of each motor independently.
If using 4 motors, then 2 run CCW and the others CW.

Klaus