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[MOVED] Infrared detectors / sensors

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ezzo

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Hi, I need help by someone who is very knowledgeable with infrared sensors / detectors etc. I have bought a sleep mask that can detect when a person is in REM sleep (dreaming) The sleep mask has a small circuit board inside with an infrared detector that detects eye movementthroughout the night.

When the infrared detector picks up a lot of eyeball movement it then knows the person is dreaming and will flash 2 bright LED lights at the closed eyes allowing the dreamer to know when they are dreaming. The device is acurate and does what it says 'on the tin' Anyway, my issues are as follows. I am concerned that all night i have a electronic sensor constantly monitoring my eye for movement.

The reason this is a concern is that it could damage the eye / long term problems etc. Im no expert but having infrared detector / device 1mm from the eye all night could be dangerous?

This is a passage from their website ........... "The REM-Dreamer uses infrared sensors to detect when you are in REM (dreaming) sleep. At that point the REM-Dreamer gives you sound and light cues (beeps and flashing lights) to remind you that you are dreaming. Thus, external world stimuli are transferred to the world of your dreams, and it becomes easy to achieve lucidity"

Please take a look at their website to get full details on this device, thanks you

RemDreamer description - https://remdreamer.com/index.php
Rem dreamer photos - https://remdreamer.com/rem-dreamer_pro.php Thank you Terry
 

Re: Infrared detectors / sensors

The IR light levels would be extremely low and obviously not visible even if the eye was open. There is far more chance of something only 1mm away doing physical damage than causing optical problems. I would be somewhat worried about the whole concept of disturbing natural sleep patterns anyway!

Brian.
 

Re: Infrared detectors / sensors

I did not see any mention regarding to some health approval of this gadget at that website.
Particularly, I would never permit anyone using that unless deeply knowing the risks involved.
 

I presume that it is not considered experimentation involving human subjects.

I strongly suggest that you consider some university and/or research institutions in your area for help and guidance.
 

whatever it is, if it uses IR, then yes, definitely damages not only your eyes, but also brain.
Because IR is simply an electromagnetic radiation which is proved to be dangerous for human body.
 

Yavuzyaman, I agree if the power levels are very high but there is considerable IR radiation all around us and it does us no harm. It is also blocked very easily by skin so at the levels (a few mW at most) of a small LED, almost all of it would be stopped by eyelids. Remember this gadget works by detecting movement while the eyes are closed, it isn't shining directly in to the pupil. Nothing should reach the brain and almost nothing should even reach as far as the eyes retina.

I agree that the device is probably dangerous and should be used with extreme caution, but I don't think radiation is the issue. I would be more concerned about placing any equipment so close to the eye in uncontrolled conditions and the psychological effects of being deprived of REM sleep.

Brian.
 

I dunno....
Sounds a bit risky to me.

Deep meditation will achieve similar results where with practice you can reach deeper levels of consciousness which is what a dream state does.

Mystics have been able to do this for centuries without the need for IR sensors.

Metaphysics is a truly fascinating subject, but completely off topic for this Forum.
 

damages not only your eyes, but also brain.
Because IR is simply an electromagnetic radiation which is proved to be dangerous for human body

The penetrating capacity of the IR spectrum in the human body is limited to the most outer layers of the skin, not directly affecting brain as you perhaps meant, but could somehow impact on mind as suggested above; ok, just terminology.

Anyway, we all agree that considering either the eyelid as well retina are both very thin and delicate parts of the body, being the last one unable to self regenerate, the use of a gadget like this, whose impact on health is still wrapped in some obscurity, seems totally inadvisable.
 

Deep meditation will achieve similar results where with practice you can reach deeper levels of consciousness which is what a dream state does.

Rapid eye movements (REM) has been known for a very long time and has been correlated with "brain waves"- Both ECG and EEG are generally considered non-invasive but I am not sure of this method.

One can visually make out whether a person in sleep is dreaming or not- most of the time accurately, and communicate with the dreamer via a normal headphone. The IR sensor is only to monitor the eye movement and no metaphysics is involved.

I do not believe in mystics and mysticism is not a science. I have heard the phrase 'deeper levels of consciousness' many times before but I do not know what it means.
 

I do not believe in mystics and mysticism is not a science. I have heard the phrase 'deeper levels of consciousness' many times before but I do not know what it means.
Dreaming and hypnosis even general anaesthesia are altered mental states of awareness pretty well accepted by science.
 

Yavuzyaman, I agree if the power levels are very high but there is considerable IR radiation all around us and it does us no harm. It is also blocked very easily by skin so at the levels (a few mW at most) of a small LED, almost all of it would be stopped by eyelids. Remember this gadget works by detecting movement while the eyes are closed, it isn't shining directly in to the pupil. Nothing should reach the brain and almost nothing should even reach as far as the eyes retina.

I agree that the device is probably dangerous and should be used with extreme caution, but I don't think radiation is the issue. I would be more concerned about placing any equipment so close to the eye in uncontrolled conditions and the psychological effects of being deprived of REM sleep.

Brian.

Brian,

I don't talk about LEDs. The sensing process is done by infrared detector. And it tries all the night. This is the problem.
Yes, you're right. I should've written that detail. It is harmful for high power levels. However, this assumption is acceptable for devices you carry on your pocket, or stand or sit nearby of it. This device is just a mm far away from eyes and I am pretty sure that low frequency (long wavelength) is able to penetrate into eyelids even if a few mW power level is used.

Along with the IR, there are a lot of components on that device, including a micro-controller, resistors etc. Even if it didn't use IR for detecting eyeball movements, that device still would've been dangerous because of the electromagnetic field radiated by those components. Attention has to be paid to the distance.
 

I agree that the device is probably dangerous and should be used with extreme caution, but I don't think radiation is the issue. I would be more concerned about placing any equipment so close to the eye in uncontrolled conditions and the psychological effects of being deprived of REM sleep

Some persons are stricken by a sleep disease called "nocturnal lagophthalmos", characterized by sleeping with the eyes half opened. In the majority of the cases, just slightly. The simple fact of existing such a condition, should subject the use of that equipment just upon medical prescription.
 

I believe that the detector senses a modulated signal coming from a IR led (skin is almost transparent to IR)- just like the way a common IR TV remote works. In this way, the excitation signal need not be very strong and background signal can be effectively removed. It is basically measuring the scattered IR and the movement of the pupil affects the signal at the detector. The rapid eye movement (REM) is not really rapid (in the electrical sense; in biological sense they are more or similar to the motions in the awake state) and can be measured without much problem. You can see the IR using any electronic camera (it shows up as red in most digital cameras).
 

Other than reflected IR light to a sensor I can't see how it could detect REM. The natural IR radiation from the heat of the skin would be hard to use as a detection medium, I can't see that a moving eyeball will produce much temperature change (IR level change) on the surface of the eyelid. However a small IR source and detector would easily see a change in reflected light as the eyelid surface moved in response to the eyeball underneath it. If you look at the photograph of the PCB you can easilly see LEDs above the eye positions although those could be the ones for flashing the stimulus. The black object at the bottom left side looks like a standard IR photodiode. It would be interesting to see the other side of the PCB, the mix of SMD and through hole parts is puzzling.

I would forget any ideas about dangerous EM levels from this device, even when so close to the eyes. It is only powered from two coin cells and if you allow for say 1 month of battery life, the likely power used by the whole device is only a few microwatts and most of that will release as heat.

Brian.
 

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