What kind of ASIC designer is better off, frontend or backend?

[sizzlers]

Re: Frontend vs. Backend

hi all,
in vlsi both front end and back end are important.but some one told one example 10 years experience guy has tool experience.it is right up to some extent only.it needs so much thinking, finally BE guy closes the design.
thanks.

 

[avimit]

Re: Frontend vs. Backend

dear sizzlers
I dont want to hurt any BE guy, so if you want to say BE guys are superior, ok, u win, agreed! My intention is more to put the facts than to prove who is superior.

 

[honnaraj.t]

Re: Frontend vs. Backend

hi ,
Really it is wonderfull topic to discus becuase for VLSI we have to do lot work... each domain and each engg work is importent......................
But focus we are all discussing regarding RTL ,TESTING ,BE,FE. DESIGN.........but my doubt is BASICALLY I AM IMPLEMENTING ON GRAPHIC PROCESSOR ON FPGA.....
WHAT'S YOUR OPINION REGARDING WETHER FPGA IS FE AND BE
\

TNX

 

[ubna]

Re: Frontend vs. Backend

hi ,
but my doubt is BASICALLY I AM IMPLEMENTING ON GRAPHIC PROCESSOR ON FPGA.....
WHAT'S YOUR OPINION REGARDING WETHER FPGA IS FE AND BE
\

TNX

IF u r implementing graphic processor on fpga then most of ur work will only be in front end. Back end comes into picture if u r going to design the library cells and the layout in ASIC...

 

[honnaraj.t]

Re: Frontend vs. Backend

hi,

thanks for making clear idea about area of my project...........basically i am working on fpga ... my project is implementing graphic processor on fpga....here i have to implement opengl graphic library on fpga......... please me where i ll get some related idea regarding my project


tnx

 

[vlsichipdesigner]

Re: Frontend vs. Backend

Dear Designer's,

I started my career from Software and was not much challenging so switched to VLSI Design say more than 10 years back.

As i started my career in the VLSI Domain industry, I was with Frontend for five years, Performed Verification then switched to Backend Design...

I did almost RTL coding, module level verification, chip level verification, formal verification, cycle based Verification, Static Timing Analysis, IR drop power analysis, Synthesis (module/Chip level), Layout Design for Module/Chip , physical verification.... So I feel i can comment.

It is two different world "FrontEnd & BackEnd", in most cases "One World doesnt know about the other World at all".

My initial days were very very tougth when i transitioned from Frontend to backend, i was not aware most of the concepts, people used to talk about lot of Jargon's/keywords (DEF/LEF/SPEF/SDC/IR Drop/Manhattan/Dynamic/leakage/Noise/Glitch/Clock balancing/Sinks/Macro/Blockage/Congestion/Cluster/Region/Global/Detailed/.....) to name a few.... I used to Get totally Lost...
You know in this Crazy World "I found there is no one to Help me, rather i found like this sucha good Forum's where discussion happenns rather i might not have been aware of these, all books were costly" and to learn the concepts all alone it was real tough...

This whole world of Backend is driven by Process Guys, Process guys are going crazy and trying to stretch themselves the best possible with the "World of Uncertainities" : lithography, and the game is all about "Modeling" and how good it is all about....

So after learning/Understanding the concepts then i thought of making an internal analogy to understand the concepts better....
VLSI Chip Design is similar to Building Architecture and lot of Correlation there and lot of Synchronization and lot of team work in any successful building Construction similar here lot of Fields/lot of tools only Good Methodology can make Life Simpler.

So I share My Experiences in my website
https://www.vlsichipdesign.com

And when ever i find time, i do write there...keep posting, just to make both frontend and backend guys to better understand the concepts....

https://www.vlsichipdesign.com/knowledgehome.html

I would Recommend "Dont restrict yourselves with Frontend or backend" Say rather assume you are an "Chip Architect" and Drive things, it is much more interesting , you will really Appreciate the Chip Designing Game and you will love it as well...

Praise the Lord

Happy Designing.

 

[sowmya005]

Re: Frontend vs. Backend

BACK END IS A GOOD BEGINNING.

 

[aaronkong]

Re: Frontend vs. Backend

There're too many FE guys which no too many BE guys.

The tools wont as intellegent as man.

 

[shiv_emf]

Re: Frontend vs. Backend

There're too many FE guys which no too many BE guys.

The tools wont as intellegent as man.

:idea:

 

[shockie]

Re: Frontend vs. Backend

Nice website.

Dear Designer's,

I started my career from Software and was not much challenging so switched to VLSI Design say more than 10 years back.

As i started my career in the VLSI Domain industry, I was with Frontend for five years, Performed Verification then switched to Backend Design...

I did almost RTL coding, module level verification, chip level verification, formal verification, cycle based Verification, Static Timing Analysis, IR drop power analysis, Synthesis (module/Chip level), Layout Design for Module/Chip , physical verification.... So I feel i can comment.

It is two different world "FrontEnd & BackEnd", in most cases "One World doesnt know about the other World at all".

My initial days were very very tougth when i transitioned from Frontend to backend, i was not aware most of the concepts, people used to talk about lot of Jargon's/keywords (DEF/LEF/SPEF/SDC/IR Drop/Manhattan/Dynamic/leakage/Noise/Glitch/Clock balancing/Sinks/Macro/Blockage/Congestion/Cluster/Region/Global/Detailed/.....) to name a few.... I used to Get totally Lost...
You know in this Crazy World "I found there is no one to Help me, rather i found like this sucha good Forum's where discussion happenns rather i might not have been aware of these, all books were costly" and to learn the concepts all alone it was real tough...

This whole world of Backend is driven by Process Guys, Process guys are going crazy and trying to stretch themselves the best possible with the "World of Uncertainities" : lithography, and the game is all about "Modeling" and how good it is all about....

So after learning/Understanding the concepts then i thought of making an internal analogy to understand the concepts better....
VLSI Chip Design is similar to Building Architecture and lot of Correlation there and lot of Synchronization and lot of team work in any successful building Construction similar here lot of Fields/lot of tools only Good Methodology can make Life Simpler.

So I share My Experiences in my website
https://www.vlsichipdesign.com

And when ever i find time, i do write there...keep posting, just to make both frontend and backend guys to better understand the concepts....

https://www.vlsichipdesign.com/knowledgehome.html

I would Recommend "Dont restrict yourselves with Frontend or backend" Say rather assume you are an "Chip Architect" and Drive things, it is much more interesting , you will really Appreciate the Chip Designing Game and you will love it as well...

Praise the Lord

Happy Designing.

 

[avimit]

Re: Frontend vs. Backend

No, I dont think that true. Because there are more and more new things which ppl are now doing in BE, such as isolations, different voltage domains. As the time passes by, there will be more and more BE complications, which automatic tools will just cant handle. So for quite a while I guess you will see BE as an integral part where humans will be required for it.
Kr,
Avi
http://www.vlsiip.com

 

[nsccad]

Frontend vs. Backend

After 5years or so ...tools will be automated n there will nt be any Backend design ...
--> Yes, it is comming on that trend.

 

[gmajay123]

Re: Frontend vs. Backend

Guys, Dont keep threatening BE Engineers that the backend flow will be completely automated and they will not be required.

It will not be long before the Front End is automated. There will be tools which will convert C codes, FSM's( from a graphical view ) into HDL's.

When EDA tools can automate the complex task of backend by taking into account all the physics involved, frontend automation is not a big deal.

Now, with the licensing of IP cores by companies like MIPS, ARM more and more front end jobs are lost.

 

[ysk2020]

Re: Frontend vs. Backend

its definately one intriguing topic . A question naturally arises on the aspect of which has more wieghtage - front end or backend!!
however as far as i have seen starting with frontend is more convenient in terms of learning experience. Without the understanding of the front end tools it becomes difficult to work with the back end. However i must say that there is no hard and fast rule that without frontend experince , it is impossible to learn back end..

But i would like to mention that in order to cope up with the backend tools like ICC , one must have the basic understanding of the crucial design methodologies.

 

[ljxpjpjljx]

Re: Frontend vs. Backend

in fact, now back-end guys earn more!

 

[Prmdkn]

Re: Frontend vs. Backend

Hi guys ,i just completed my Advanced diploma in ASIC design which had both front end and Backend modules ,now i got a chance to design standard cell libraries for ARM ,i think starting with backend is good as we will know the real issues of design on silicon ...u can always practice front end in home simultaneously as tools are available its all about applying logic and bit of programming skills but to make it work on silicon is challenging .... according to me 3yrs of backend and then shifting to FE is good.... and remember BE guys get paid more ultimately that is what u want

 

[dhaval004]

Please help me to choose between BE and FE.

Hi, I am Dhaval from Bangalore, India.
Currently I am doing internship in Analog Design Domain at Honeywell Technology Solutions Lab, Bangalore as a part of my 2nd year M.Tech. Microelectronics. My M.Tech. will be over in May-2012. I have a job offer in VLSI company in which I have to choose between Front end Design or Back end design.

For Front end Design :
They mainly work on Verilog and System Verilog for design and verification.

For Back end Design:

It is Analog and Mixed Signal Design. They are using cadence tools or Design Compiler.
They mainly work on:
Schematic entry, layout, LVS, DRC, STA, RC Extraction etc...means full backend design flow.


So, My confusion is which one to choose. I have basic knowledge of both. Like in FE I know basic vhdl and verilog. In Back end i had done CMOS Invertor in cadence (from schematic to layout to lvs and drc).

I found back end more chellenging comparatively froent end. I mean any one who knows C/C++ very well can do FE design by using free wares but every one cant do back end design.

So, My question is that which one is better (I mean for the future perspective ).
Which field is high paying field.
Based on your suggestions i am going to choose my field and in mean time i will concentrate in that field.

Any inputs are highly appreciable.