unbuildpain
Full Member level 2

Thanks for making me aware of the correct word to use for it. With paint over the PCB, how can we know if there is a ground plane below it or not?Delay matching implies causing a delay...
I guess you want to ask about radiating rather than generating a signal. Only active components, e.g. transistors can generate a signal.
A trace upon a ground plane doesn't radiate significantly. Printed antennas use trace structures without ground plane below. Refer to the photos you posted in your other thread.
a motherboard consists of several copper layers. And a motherboard is a HF design. The chip manufacturer usually provides a full design guide how to design a motherboard. Do a search - maybe you find it.Thanks for making me aware of the correct word to use for it. With paint over the PCB, how can we know if there is a ground plane below it or not?
There are. Millions. Hidden under black plastics.If Transistors can generate signal, motherboard would be filled with them.
I have searched for motherboard design guide for the motherboard mentioned in this thread and I couldn't find any. What terms would you use to find it?Hi,
a motherboard consists of several copper layers. And a motherboard is a HF design. The chip manufacturer usually provides a full design guide how to design a motherboard. Do a search - maybe you find it.
Btw: I never needed to know if or where ther is a GND plane in a motherboard. I just used it.
There are. Millions. Hidden under black plastics.
Klaus
I meant wireless signals, can they utilized to send and receive wireless signals? Not specifically built for wireless communication, but any regular IC which has transistors but can has transistors.the millions of transistors Klaus is referring to are in the integrated circuits - the black plastics
and they certainly do work in conjunctions and send and receive signals, calculate, move data,
ansd all the ohter things any of our electronic gadgets do
That is impossible going by my experience.Hi.
Be sure there is no hidden wireless on your motherboard.
Nobody will steal informations from your PC (unless you carelessly send them via internet).
Whether a metal can shield or not depends on it's conductivity, if it has low conductivity it's as good as transparent in the radio frequency and these cases have openings too. You have a smartphone which is so small it fits in your pocket, and it has limited battery capacity, it is a able to send a signal which able to reach cell tower which would be approximately 1 kilometer away, and it will also be able to send a signal to reach WiFi which would also be some meters away. I have to agree with you that if there is some undisclosed wireless technology inside my motherboard, miscreants using it will have to be nearby.A metal PC case is shielded , thus it's almost impossible to send/receive wirelessly informations from/to the motherboard.
And if we just imagine there is some hidden wireless on your motherboard, then the range would be very limited. Your "enemy"needs to wait outside the window and wait for you to use the PC. And what can he expect to gain? Do you hide that extreme secrets that makes it worth to spend the effort?
I don't use smartphone and I don't do any such things.It's more likely that you installed an app on your cellular telephone that misuses your address book, location tool, microphone, browser ... to get your informations. But they mainly are not interested in individual informations but crowd informations.
Don't be hysteric. Nowadays many people "try" to hide their data. They refuse schools, kindergardens, sport clubs to post photos on their web site (without names or detailed informations) ... but the same time they spread all their movements, discussions, photos, private informations ... carelessly via the social medias.
Klaus
I've checked motherboards I could find and they don't have ground plane, I can see the same pattern on the front and back.Delay matching implies causing a delay...
I guess you want to ask about radiating rather than generating a signal. Only active components, e.g. transistors can generate a signal.
A trace upon a ground plane doesn't radiate significantly. Printed antennas use trace structures without ground plane below. Refer to the photos you posted in your other thread.
Very unlikely. You can look through the board to identify regions without planes. Usually there are none.I've checked motherboards I could find and they don't have ground plane, I can see the same pattern on the front and back.
Motherboards have more than 2 layers (TOP and BOTTOM).
They are multilayer PCBs. Often 8 to 12 layers of copper.
Klaus
If I'm seeing squiggly patterns are on the front and back at the same place, doesn't it mean the trace is on the top and bottom layers or extending through all the layers? Why would a path require traces on the top and bottom, wouldn't 1 be sufficient? I was reading an electronics textbook and in that it was mentioned that regardless of the shape of a copper wire, electricity travels at the same pace, they gave an analogy of pipe or tube filled with balls and when a ball is inserted at one end, at the other end, a ball eject almost instantaneously, so what kind of delay will squiggly traces like that cause?Very unlikely. You can look through the board to identify regions without planes. Usually there are none.
they may look identical, but I´m sure the traces carry different signals on top and on bottom.If I'm seeing squiggly patterns are on the front and back at the same place, doesn't it mean the trace is on the top and bottom layers or extending through all the layers?
True, same pace, but different length means different time. And those meander traces surely are longer than a straight trace.I was reading an electronics textbook and in that it was mentioned that regardless of the shape of a copper wire, electricity travels at the same pace,
Almost instant. But it takes time. For a raw estimation you may calculate with about 60% of c (speed of light)when a ball is inserted at one end, at the other end, a ball eject almost instantaneously, so what kind of delay will squiggly traces like that cause?
How exactly can I verify if there is a ground plane or not? Maybe the traces don't require a ground plane?they may look identical, but I´m sure the traces carry different signals on top and on bottom.
Next to the bottom layer there should be a GND layer. Next to the top layer there should be a GND layer, too.
True, same pace, but different length means different time. And those meander traces surely are longer than a straight trace.
Almost instant. But it takes time. For a raw estimation you may calculate with about 60% of c (speed of light)
Klaus
Not all traces do need a ground plane but I would guess there is one covering most of the area of the board on one of the internal layers. The only way you can see for yourself is to take an x-ray picture. That's what they do in production facilities for checking the board and solder joints under components.How exactly can I verify if there is a ground plane or not? Maybe the traces don't require a ground plane?