What do you expect Protel 2004 will be like?

[Phil woz ere]

Is it going to be as bad as 97-98-99-DXP.......What do you think?.
Please send your answers on a postcard or use the vote buttons supplied. :wink:

 

[Frosty]

Re: Protel 2004

You should add better & worse option at same time!

Fix some issues for DXP side

Added new things which look good but don't work

Still lots of basic things like menu buttons, shortcuts, panels and stuff that simply DONT work.

If they cannot find a test methodology to fix basic things like the user interface what chance in hell do they have of fixing more complex stuff.

Forget the autorouter, its just simply a bag of s***, they should actually be embarassed to promote it in a product compared to the alternatives available.

If they wanna survive they need to be getting more work done on the core, reduce the user overhead needed for the bad GUI and dump the eye candy.

They obviously think they are selling to consumers with poor product knowledge instead of engineers, or are engineers just as impressed with blinking lights and nice looks same as the average joe?

I remember complaining about 99 the same way, then the fixed it with 99SE (99+SP3) so no we have P2004 (DXP +SP3+bogus extras)

Some companies never learn, one look at there support mail list tells the whole story. Due to bad management and poor market direction it is a waste of a good product with so much potential.

:evil:

BTW I voted more beer please because after trying to drive this elephant I sure need one.

 

[Frosty]

Re: Protel 2004

Phil

Ever thought of changing the picture from a mini to a real car like a Singer Chamois/Stilleto or Hillman Imp 8)

 

[Phil woz ere]

Re: P*otel 2004

Phil

Ever thought of changing the picture from a mini to a real car like a Singer Chamois/Stilleto or Hillman Imp 8)

Its the only car I have, us engineers can only afford old bangers.....
I just put the poll on as a Joke, I am a devoted Pcad and Pads user, I have had Protel forced on me and It is totally crap, What is worse Pcad is now getting that really useless design explorer crud that I hate most about Protel.If the user interface was better I may be able to live with the way it works but they do not listen to what we say.
Protel2004 is full of bells and whistles that nodoby really wants or uses.

I will try to find another piccy to put on here.

Phil.

 

[Frosty]

Re: Protel 2004

Ah

thought you were actually a Mini fan but as you are unaware of the Mini<>Imp rally rivalry i guess your not 8)

Many a battle with mince pies at Donningt..

:lol:

 

[Phil woz ere]

Re: P*otel 2004

Ah

thought you were actually a Mini fan but as you are unaware of the Mini<>Imp rally rivalry i guess your not 8)

Many a battle with mince pies at Donningt..

:lol:

I am a Mini fan, I also like Imps and all other small 60s British cars. I had a piccy of my old Hunter to hand so i put it up. I love small but perfectly formed cars......

Phil.

 

[Frosty]

Re: Protel 2004

But mini & beetles at least had the engine in the right place, driving the correct wheels : 8)

 

[flatulent]

Re: Protel 2004

Just a word about the software (and not the auto) question. It frequently occurs in a privately held company that the owner/operator is not skilled in business or technology and stumbled into a profitable niche. These people will never admit their shortcomings to themselves or others and for some reason can not be influenced by customer complaints. Had they taken in a good business manager to run the company, they would have been much better off financially.

I have know individuals who lived in poverty and misery because they would not admit making mistakes and correcting them.

 

[Beetroots]

Re: Protel 2004

I've finally received the 2004 update, and installed it this morning. I never bothered with DZP when it came out, since based on experience with protel I knew ot would be full of bugs until about SP3.

Looking at 2004 I'm fairly surprised - it really doesn't bear much resemblance to 99SE (for example all the keyboard shortcuts seem to have changed). I can't undertand why they haven't just fixed the (pretty few) bugs in 99SE and added sensible user requested features.

I doubt I'll bother learning 2004 since looking at the features I can't really see the advantage over 99SE.

 

[bigrice]

P*otel 2004

forget that piece of *
protel2004 is the worst PCB software I have ever seen.

It eats your memory, CPU, VGA memory, 2 huge LCDs, faint, I feel it's not design but luxury cost with it.

 

[dspcode]

Re: Protel 2004

To All,

Protel DXP was only good for importing some Orcad files but not much else. As some have indicated, the user interface changed tooooo much (too much else to learn) and it was buggy. I still like 99SE since it works. Is Protel probably now run by accounting/financial types who have no idea of the technology they are selling??

dspcode

 

[Frosty]

Re: P*otel 2004

To All,

Is P*otel probably now run by accounting/financial types who have no idea of the technology they are selling??

dspcode

What, you mean to say that companies making mega $$$$$$$ are so short sighted to think that the $$$ is more important than a good product? 8O 8O 8O

That was not a serious question, no answer needed

 

[panalog9]

P*otel 2004

So if not 2004, then what do you suggest ? Looking at the feature list of P@ds 2004, it looks very capable. I would like to try it out, but I would like to see some docs, tutorials, howtos, etc before starting down the painful rd of learning a new eda package.

-pana

 

[Frosty]

Re: Protel 2004

Ah, the question of the ages, whats the best package to use..... real meaning of life stuff......must drink beer and consider.......

Many a good topic has been overrun trying to answer this question.

To be quite straight about it, if you want speed, reliability, easy to use, there are far better alternatives to DXP/2004.

If you beleive their sales pitch the tools are all things for all people, if you look at what they deliver, is a badly repackaged 99SE wth a lot of bugs.

You do not need to get any documentation, you should join their mailing lists and read archives for yourself. I would beleive the users vefore I beleive a sales leaflet.

you know you still have to install Altera & Xilinx tools to use Altium FPGA tools don't you? Their FPGA tools are little more than an editor and JTAG link to download the code?

Oh what wonders lie in thou glossy leaflets and multimedia presentations.

Guess that is why marketing graduates get paid more than engineers 8O :lol:

 

[Beetroots]

Re: Protel 2004

Must admit 99SE works fine for me, with Orcad SDT (the old dos version) for schematic capture, and spectra for autorouting if required.

NB - if anyone is looking at purchasing autorouting softwre in the near future give Elektra a try. I've been comparing it to spectra and it's in the same league but at a fraction of the cost.

 

[Frosty]

Re: Protel 2004

probably deserves another topic but,

I have not tried the router Electra but does it not have some issue with matched trace lengths & rules? Specctra does this well.

So how suitable is Electra for high speed design with 32/64 bit buses or cases where matched trace lengths/timing constraints are critical?

I think you will find that most design houses that handle such designs are paid well enough that they wont mind paying for Specctra.

 

[Beetroots]

Re: Protel 2004

True, it's still lacking a lot of the features that Specctra include as options. The approach the're taking with electra, at least at the moment, is that it's all inclusive - there are no add-ons. The only thing that differentiates between versions is the number of routing layers it can handle.

I believe that the company was started by the people who originaly created Specctra - indeed it looks very much like a clone.

On the couple of boards I've tried it with it's routed faster than Specctra (about twice as fast on one board), used less vias and done a better job in the tidy up passes. I didn't really expect this, but didn't think too much about it until the sales guy got in touch with pricing info. The 4,6 and unlimited routing layer versions (unlimited plane layers and pincounts) come in at 750,1500 and 2500 euros.

At under £500 for the 4 layer version I don't think there is much competition. If they keep this aggresive pricing and continue adding advanced routing features I'm pretty sure it'll capture a chunk of the low-mid end market and eventually take seats from cadence.

Anyway, I hope so. Specctra hasn't moved on much since Cadence bought it from C&C.

 

[Phil woz ere]

Re: P*otel 2004

So if not 2004, then what do you suggest ? Looking at the feature list of P@ds 2004, it looks very capable. I would like to try it out, but I would like to see some docs, tutorials, howtos, etc before starting down the painful rd of learning a new eda package.

-pana

Before you waste time trying pads, which is a fairly good piece of software, Take a little time to look at the cost, A basic system is about thesame cost as Protel/Pcad but you do not get many features as it is modular. You get what you pay for.

Phil.