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Strange results when simulating divided phase noise in ADS

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redpixel

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Hi all!

I was trying to simulate phase noise getting divided down by a DivideByN component in ADS, expecting to see a reduction by 20*log10(N) (N=2 in this case, so -6 dB). What I actually see though are some very weird results. I'm using a Circuit Envelope simulation engine, with noise analysis turned on. To generate the phase noise I use the OSCwPhNoise component. To plot the phase noise I use a phase demodulator and then take 10*log10(0.5*noise**2) for the noise in the phase demodulated node.

The problem is that I'm not at all seeing the -6 dB I expected. Rather, I'm seeing what appears to be a bit "random" results. The longer I let the simulation run, the weirder the results get. The noise seems to be "accumulating" in the divided node. Sometimes I get phase noise much lower (like -50 dB lower) and sometimes I actually get phase noise that's much higher (like +100 dB) in the divided node. Anyone have any clue as to why this is happening?

I'm not really sure if I should include the 2 GHz as an analysis frequency for the Circuit Envelope controller? Even if I include it I get weird results though.

I'm attaching a picture of the schematic and the display window. As you can see the results are what I expect for the undivided phase noise but really strange for the divided node.



Thanks in advance for any thoughts on the matter.
 

Hi all!

To plot the phase noise I use a phase demodulator and then take 10*log10(0.5*noise**2) for the noise in the phase demodulated node.

No need to use demodulator for ploting PN. The ADS can auto plot PN, in "pnmx". Read through the ADS handbook
 

No need to use demodulator for ploting PN. The ADS can auto plot PN, in "pnmx". Read through the ADS handbook

Hi!

You're right, in this case I could've used a noise controller with phase noise analysis and skipped the phase demodulator. It doesn't have any effect on the odd results I'm seeing though. Any idea what's causing the strange results?
 

DivideByN is a counter, i.e. a digital component, not a RF component. I guess the component is made by CMOS circuits etc. So the PN can't be figured out.

If you want to test the 6dB effect for doubler or divide-by-2, you can use analog components, say some diode or transistor, to test.

Always the divide-by-2 can't get -6dB on PN because the components internal noise is very high.
 

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