[SOLVED] Phase Angle Meter is RMS or Peak?

[ParkerMike]

A phase angle meter has a Total button and a In-Phase Button

The Total Button measures in RMS and is the same AC measurement as a DVM meter in AC mode?

The In-Phase measures in RMS or Peak?

The In-Phase measures the input voltage in phase with a reference input voltage of the same frequency

The Polarity and Magnitude is displayed

When measuring AC voltage in the In-phase mode, you're measuring AC voltages that are referenced to a referenced voltage and frequency

The reference voltage and frequency is 115VAC at 120hz that goes to the reference input on the phase angle meter.

The Total and In-phase would show no difference in readings if the input phase angle is 0 degree, 180 degree, 360 degree.

The only time the In-Phase has a different reading compared to the Total is when the input phase angle is at an angle other then 0, 180, 360 degrees

Why would you want to reference the input phase angle to 115hz at 60hz, 120hz, 400hz?

Why use this as the reference to measure the outputs of a circuits phase angle?

 

[D.A.(Tony)Stewart]

60Hz is North American std for line power consumption in 1 or 3 phase systems.

120Hz might be useful for rectified output.?

400Hz is a standard for aviation power, for example, due to lighter weight cores need or same excitation current.

 

[ParkerMike]

60Hz is North American std for line power consumption in 1 or 3 phase systems.

120Hz might be useful for rectified output.?

400Hz is a standard for aviation power, for example, due to lighter weight cores need or same excitation current.

Yes true, but the Total and the In-phase modes display the same readings

The Total mode is RMS just like a DVM meter , on a Phase angle meter you can use the Reference input for 60hz,120hz, 400hz

The In-Phase mode is NOT RMS i think, but gets it's phase angle voltage from comparing the phase angles AC input voltage with the reference input

The Reference input is at 115volts, either if its at 60hz , 120hz, 400hz

If the AC input voltage is other then 115 volts , the phase angle meter will display the difference between the AC input voltage and the Reference voltage?

AC input voltage is 10 VAC peak to peak
The Reference voltage is 115 VAC
Phase angle meter displays the difference in voltage?

The Total function doesn't do this, only the In-Phase Mode does

 

[Venkadesh_M]

The phase angle measurement is mainly used in synchronizing two or more AC power generators to power a single power line or grid.

Before connecting Two lines parallely they should be in same voltage frequency and should be in inphase.

For achieving that conventionally they have used dark lamp and bright lamp method (a lamp connected between two lines will not glow if the phases are in inphase)

now a days it is possible to use phase angle measurement, but i am not sure about your instrument having only one phase input and other fixed input 60Hz supply.

might be the reference is always constant and can be used for number of generators independently.

 

[D.A.(Tony)Stewart]

Both are RMS converted from pk

In-Phase: Is the RMS measurement of the vector component of a signal voltage that is in phase with a reference voltage

 

[FvM]

Without referring to the instrument specification or user manual, the question is far from being clear.

Strictly speaking phase angle and magnitude are neither rms nor peak measurements. These are (most likely averaged) properties of the fundamental wave. I would expect the magnitude to correspond to the rms value of an undistorted sine, but other scalings are possible as well.

 

[D.A.(Tony)Stewart]

As FVM indicates, there are many different models of Phase Angle Meters. Each with unique methods.

Generally Total should be Total true RMS of input with noise rejected, but many primitive units only use Peak-RMS and may not filter the fundamental.

In Phase should only be In Phase with the reference, thus if measuring two,voltage sources prior to bridging, they should matched amplitude for zero transfer.

If you want to see effects of phase error to generate power or draw from Input, The Total Input would be same as In Phase for matched connection and then reduce In Phase with phase error resulting in either generation or load depending on lead/lag of phase.

MAny other uses such as LVDT testing.

 

[ParkerMike]

In-Phase: Is the RMS measurement of the vector component of a signal voltage that is in phase with a reference voltage

In-phase is measuring the "Difference" in AC voltage from the AC input to the AC reference voltage?

Total is "not" measuring the Difference between the AC input voltage to the AC reference voltage?

Strictly speaking phase angle and magnitude are neither rms nor peak measurements. These are (most likely averaged) properties of the fundamental wave.

north atlantic phase angle voltmeter 225 manual doesn't say at all that is RMS, PEAK or Averaging

MAny other uses such as LVDT testing.

What do u mean by LVDT testing?

 

[FvM]

Phase sensitive measurement hasn't to do with difference between reference and signal input, it's demodulating the signal with the reference. You'll find a brief description of the measurement principle in this Wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock-in_amplifier

I presume that the instrument manual has a more detailed description of the implemented measurement principle. A certain background knowledge about AC voltages may be required to understand it.

Without a specific application that demands the usage of a vector respective phase angle voltmeter, the discussion is probably bloodless. What's your application?

 

[D.A.(Tony)Stewart]

Both are RMS converted from pk

In-Phase: Is the RMS measurement of the vector component of a signal voltage that is in phase with a reference voltage

i.e the cosine of the input vector with reference= cosine (0)

this is the definition from some Phase Angle Meter instrument suppliers.