Welcome to EDAboard.com

Welcome to our site! EDAboard.com is an international Electronics Discussion Forum focused on EDA software, circuits, schematics, books, theory, papers, asic, pld, 8051, DSP, Network, RF, Analog Design, PCB, Service Manuals... and a whole lot more! To participate you need to register. Registration is free. Click here to register now.

LCR meter to get the phase angle?

Status
Not open for further replies.

dannydavis

Newbie level 6
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
14
Helped
0
Reputation
0
Reaction score
0
Trophy points
1,281
Activity points
1,432
lcr meter circuit

When using a LCR meter

Can you measure a RC network or a LC network or LR network?

Because my LCR meter just only lets me measure them one component at a time , i can't measure the network

The only way i can get the phase angle is using a dual trace oscilloscope when its a RC,LC,LR or LCR networks. Channel#1 on the input of the LCR network and than the channel#2 on the output.

Is there a way of using a LCR meter to get the phase angle ?
 

Old Nick

Advanced Member level 1
Joined
Sep 14, 2007
Messages
479
Helped
68
Reputation
136
Reaction score
18
Trophy points
1,298
Activity points
4,243
lr,lc,lcr circuits in parallel.

No, they don't do that I'm afraid.
 

dannydavis

Newbie level 6
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
14
Helped
0
Reputation
0
Reaction score
0
Trophy points
1,281
Activity points
1,432
phase angles in an lcr circuit

can you use the LCR meter to measure the Networks of a LR, LC, RC, LCR?
 

FvM

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
50,075
Helped
14,507
Reputation
29,284
Reaction score
13,452
Trophy points
1,393
Location
Bochum, Germany
Activity points
287,661
phase angle l-cr circuit

I would expect, that the LCR meter manual can answer most of your questions.

Generally it measures a complex impedance at a single frequency (this implies an impedance phase angle, of course). The result can be displayed as a LR respectively RC series or parallel circuit. For LRC, it's impossible to determine unequivocal parameters at a single frequency. This isn't a limitation of the instrument but a basic property of two-terminal equivalent circuit. By combining complex impedance measurements at two different frequencies, you're able to calculate LC or LCR parameters (within some accuracy limits).
 

Old Nick

Advanced Member level 1
Joined
Sep 14, 2007
Messages
479
Helped
68
Reputation
136
Reaction score
18
Trophy points
1,298
Activity points
4,243
relationship of phase angle to reactance

FvM said:
I would expect, that the LCR meter manual can answer most of your questions.

Generally it measures a complex impedance at a single frequency (this implies an impedance phase angle, of course). The result can be displayed as a LR respectively RC series or parallel circuit. For LRC, it's impossible to determine unequivocal parameters at a single frequency. This isn't a limitation of the instrument but a basic property of two-terminal equivalent circuit. By combining complex impedance measurements at two different frequencies, you're able to calculate LC or LCR parameters (within some accuracy limits).

I've only ever seen the return of a phase angle on high-end (expensive) LCR meters, and I don't think from the original post that this is what this chap is talking about. And I doubt whether his LCR meter will hadle networks either, which is a feature I've only seen on the expensive meters.
 

dannydavis

Newbie level 6
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
14
Helped
0
Reputation
0
Reaction score
0
Trophy points
1,281
Activity points
1,432
lcrmeter phase

How do u guys use your LCR meters? when measuring LCR circuits ?
 

FvM

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
50,075
Helped
14,507
Reputation
29,284
Reaction score
13,452
Trophy points
1,393
Location
Bochum, Germany
Activity points
287,661
lrc mrter manual

I've actually been thinking of an LCR meter that measures a complex impedance and presents it in a useful form, either equivalent circuit or loss factor. I said, a complex measurement implies an impedance phase angle, it must not necessary be displayed, but can be easily calculated.

There are also instruments, that measure L or C or R, and nothing more. The question, how to measure a phase angle would be unnecessary with these, I think.
 

dannydavis

Newbie level 6
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
14
Helped
0
Reputation
0
Reaction score
0
Trophy points
1,281
Activity points
1,432
complex impedance lcr measurement

i don't understand this LOSS FACTOR in a capacitor or inductor

what does a loss factor do to a capacitor or inductor? does a loss factor change the phase angle?

Is a loss factor a leakage?
 

FvM

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
50,075
Helped
14,507
Reputation
29,284
Reaction score
13,452
Trophy points
1,393
Location
Bochum, Germany
Activity points
287,661
impedance phaseangle measurement circuit

The loss factor usually is defined as ratio of resistance to reactance (in series equivalent circuit), thus mathematically it's the tangent of a loss phase angle.

But again, if you have an instrument, that is displaying such parameters, it's meaning has to be defined in the manual. Otherwise you can consult basic electronics text books.
 

dannydavis

Newbie level 6
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
14
Helped
0
Reputation
0
Reaction score
0
Trophy points
1,281
Activity points
1,432
what is the phase angle and how do i get it

The loss factor usually is defined as ratio of resistance to reactance (in series equivalent circuit), thus mathematically it's the tangent of a loss phase angle.


1.) So if i have a low dissipation the phase angle would be different than a High dissipation phase angle?

2.) "loss phase angle" means the the amplitude or magnitude of the phase angle has decreased or increased from the dissipation value?
 

FvM

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
50,075
Helped
14,507
Reputation
29,284
Reaction score
13,452
Trophy points
1,393
Location
Bochum, Germany
Activity points
287,661
lcr meter loss factor

In my understanding, a lossy inductor series equivalent circuit has a loss phase angle of atan(R/X), that means 0° with ideal inductance (zero losses), 90° with a resistor (loss R without inductance)
 

dannydavis

Newbie level 6
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
14
Helped
0
Reputation
0
Reaction score
0
Trophy points
1,281
Activity points
1,432
capacitance phase angle lcr meter

The more reactance, the more phase shift

1.) Why is that more reactance the more the phase shift?

2.) a lossy inductor has low reactance and low phase shift?

3.) a lossy capacitor has low reactance and low phase shift?
 

Status
Not open for further replies.

Part and Inventory Search

Welcome to EDABoard.com

Sponsor

Top