# LCR meter to get the phase angle?

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#### dannydavis

##### Newbie level 6
lcr meter circuit

When using a LCR meter

Can you measure a RC network or a LC network or LR network?

Because my LCR meter just only lets me measure them one component at a time , i can't measure the network

The only way i can get the phase angle is using a dual trace oscilloscope when its a RC,LC,LR or LCR networks. Channel#1 on the input of the LCR network and than the channel#2 on the output.

Is there a way of using a LCR meter to get the phase angle ?

#### Old Nick

lr,lc,lcr circuits in parallel.

No, they don't do that I'm afraid.

#### dannydavis

##### Newbie level 6
phase angles in an lcr circuit

can you use the LCR meter to measure the Networks of a LR, LC, RC, LCR?

#### FvM

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
phase angle l-cr circuit

I would expect, that the LCR meter manual can answer most of your questions.

Generally it measures a complex impedance at a single frequency (this implies an impedance phase angle, of course). The result can be displayed as a LR respectively RC series or parallel circuit. For LRC, it's impossible to determine unequivocal parameters at a single frequency. This isn't a limitation of the instrument but a basic property of two-terminal equivalent circuit. By combining complex impedance measurements at two different frequencies, you're able to calculate LC or LCR parameters (within some accuracy limits).

#### Old Nick

relationship of phase angle to reactance

FvM said:
I would expect, that the LCR meter manual can answer most of your questions.

Generally it measures a complex impedance at a single frequency (this implies an impedance phase angle, of course). The result can be displayed as a LR respectively RC series or parallel circuit. For LRC, it's impossible to determine unequivocal parameters at a single frequency. This isn't a limitation of the instrument but a basic property of two-terminal equivalent circuit. By combining complex impedance measurements at two different frequencies, you're able to calculate LC or LCR parameters (within some accuracy limits).

I've only ever seen the return of a phase angle on high-end (expensive) LCR meters, and I don't think from the original post that this is what this chap is talking about. And I doubt whether his LCR meter will hadle networks either, which is a feature I've only seen on the expensive meters.

#### dannydavis

##### Newbie level 6
lcrmeter phase

How do u guys use your LCR meters? when measuring LCR circuits ?

#### FvM

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
lrc mrter manual

I've actually been thinking of an LCR meter that measures a complex impedance and presents it in a useful form, either equivalent circuit or loss factor. I said, a complex measurement implies an impedance phase angle, it must not necessary be displayed, but can be easily calculated.

There are also instruments, that measure L or C or R, and nothing more. The question, how to measure a phase angle would be unnecessary with these, I think.

#### dannydavis

##### Newbie level 6
complex impedance lcr measurement

i don't understand this LOSS FACTOR in a capacitor or inductor

what does a loss factor do to a capacitor or inductor? does a loss factor change the phase angle?

Is a loss factor a leakage?

#### FvM

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
impedance phaseangle measurement circuit

The loss factor usually is defined as ratio of resistance to reactance (in series equivalent circuit), thus mathematically it's the tangent of a loss phase angle.

But again, if you have an instrument, that is displaying such parameters, it's meaning has to be defined in the manual. Otherwise you can consult basic electronics text books.

#### dannydavis

##### Newbie level 6
what is the phase angle and how do i get it

The loss factor usually is defined as ratio of resistance to reactance (in series equivalent circuit), thus mathematically it's the tangent of a loss phase angle.

1.) So if i have a low dissipation the phase angle would be different than a High dissipation phase angle?

2.) "loss phase angle" means the the amplitude or magnitude of the phase angle has decreased or increased from the dissipation value?

#### FvM

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
lcr meter loss factor

In my understanding, a lossy inductor series equivalent circuit has a loss phase angle of atan(R/X), that means 0° with ideal inductance (zero losses), 90° with a resistor (loss R without inductance)

#### dannydavis

##### Newbie level 6
capacitance phase angle lcr meter

The more reactance, the more phase shift

1.) Why is that more reactance the more the phase shift?

2.) a lossy inductor has low reactance and low phase shift?

3.) a lossy capacitor has low reactance and low phase shift?

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