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Lattice pDS tool

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madbill1

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Hi All,

Would one of you kindly share the old Lattice pDS tools with me. We're using an old lattice part that's now obsolete and we can't find the tools.

Thank You very much!

madbill1
 
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FvM

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ads-ee

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And if it's no longer supported in the ispLEVER Classic version 2.0 tool then call a Lattice FAE and find out if they can obtain the tool for the obsolete device you are using.
 

bgm

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I'm going to shoot you down on this one.

I've just been through the *misery* of dealing with Lattice and their support in trying to get hold of ispDESIGN and ispDesignEXPERT which are required to support some really old devices.

Three weeks on and all they have been able to come up with is "sorry - we have lost the software".

If you are really after a giggle and a half, I can post the support ticket contents. Put simply - if you are after support for a device which *isn't* support by ispLEVER, you are SOL. The question in regard to who may have a copy of the likes of say ispDESIGN and ispDesignEXPERT is *very* relevant and becomes an issue of concern for those of us who have to support or deal with these really old devices.

If someone has the original disks, then they need to get in touch with Lattice - I can provide a contact if need be. I've still got my support case open and "unresolved" at this stage because they haven't kept the old software.


/BGM
 

FvM

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Three weeks on and all they have been able to come up with is "sorry - we have lost the software".
Sounds unbelievable, but could be true, at least for the official latticesemi software department. I'm quite sure that there are plenty of unofficial copies at FAEs and other employes. I guess they didn't search thorughly.
 

bgm

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Sounds unbelievable, but could be true, at least for the official latticesemi software department. I'm quite sure that there are plenty of unofficial copies at FAEs and other employes. I guess they didn't search thorughly.

For your amusement .... this is the most recent, after escalation (it has been going around in circles - don't ask for the full support trail ... you would want to take to your left temple with a power drill otherwise).

---> CUT HERE <---
Dear **********,

Your support case #XXXXXX-YYYYYY regarding "ispDesignExpert software download" has been updated.

The new notes are updated below:

____________________________________________________________________________

Hi Brendon,

We tried checking the availability of the ispDesign Expert software at our factory and unfortunately we were not able to locate any other version of the software that can help you currently.

I regret for the inconvenience this has caused you.

We are working on adding a list of software which are no longer supported and not available with Lattice, so future customer do not face similar problem and may get the information initially. Thank you for your suggestion on this point. Lattice provides PCN when the devices are getting Obsolete but, will also start working on upgrading website with old software information.

Regards
***** *******
---> END CUT <---

Their support is trying ... .... and I'll leave it at that. I'll keep my own personal views on their library system to myself for now.

Now ... that all said ...

... In regard to the original poster ... from my own personal firsthand experience - can appreciate their frustration with this because it's been driving me nuts as well (this isn't rocket science).

I've still got a call out to all and sundry as to if anyone has the ispDESIGN and ispDesignExpert software. Even if they don't want to give it to me - send a ISO image back to Lattice so that they can turn around and *then* send it to me. In my case - I'm pretty much hooped without it... :(

Final $0.02 worth before I close off on this whole thing ... I agree with the forum on the policy regarding not posting of copyright stuff as a general policy - but here we have an edge case which, if you didn't see first hand - you would almost have trouble believing. It may be a case where a general call goes out to locate "abandoned" or "lost" software for this sort of thing. If nothing else - at least someone can send a copy back to the original manufacturers. While I'm not a legal ... I'm pretty sure that wouldn't cause too many copyright issues..... :)

.... or is this being unreasonable???


/BGM
 
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lucbra

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Well, to be honest ... if that particular device from Lattice is so important to you (or the company you work for), then you/they should have an image of the CD with the license file somewhere around. As posted previously - most obsolete devices are supported through the ispLEVER (I believe even the starter edition).
 

bgm

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Well, to be honest ... if that particular device from Lattice is so important to you (or the company you work for), then you/they should have an image of the CD with the license file somewhere around. As posted previously - most obsolete devices are supported through the ispLEVER (I believe even the starter edition).

I'm not sure if you are aware of this or not, but what *should* happen and what *does* happen are often *worlds* apart.

In my particular case (I have no idea in regard to what the situation is of the original poster) I've got two issues at play.

#1 I'm coming in *after* the fact...
#2 ispLever most definitely does *NOT* support all of the older devices (especially the ones I need to deal with - I would be stoked if it did).

... and just before anyone asks as why not switch out the device for another ... well ... I've got 200+ to deal with so ... yeah ... not *really* practical.

The original Lattice/Vantis software was the path of least resistance and the whole exercise should not have been that hard. Turns out, I was wrong, and simply keeping a copy of some software on a CD is a bit beyond Lattice – or at least that is what I've seen so far (I'll be *real* happy to be proved wrong on this one).

With this in mind, I'm looking at *all* options right now that I can lay my hands on - WinCUPL, CUBEL, MACHXL, PALASM, etc. Very little is off the table, so rather than just complaining about broken eggs ... I'm at least making an effort to make an omelette.

I do however want to highlight the issue ... and this leads me onto a personal bugbear of mine - so if you can stay with me ... I'm about to get on my soap box for a minor rant.

Pick just about any of the development software packages for PLD devices from the major vendors .... Altera, Lattice, Xilinx ... etc.

One of the things that you will find is that *most* of them have their own proprietary software which we take and then use to apply our creations to the silicon that they have produced.

Take Xilinx and ISE as an example. That software is licensed as a time locked node license (yeah ... I know that you can also license it as a floating license but I've never used it that way so I'm basing my experience with it on the node locked form).

If in a year or two Xilinx suddenly decided that they won't (or for some other technical reason) - they can't issue you a new license, then you are hooped if you have to deal with an existing system/environment.

It will be all well and good if nothing has to change, but if you have to alter something - you're in a world of trouble.

Sound far fetched?

Well .. unfortunately it isn't and there is even a real case I can point to.

Take Cypress... (yes ... they used to produce PLDs). The software you used to use was their 'WARP' software. Guess what ... it's now no longer available. If you are in the unfortunate position have having to come in after the fact and fix something - unless you already have the software - you're right and royally scr … err … in trouble.

The general-joe-public analogy would be having a writing pad that you can write in, but then only being allowed to write in it using a green Parker pen. If Parker suddenly decide that they don't produce green any more, you are effectively being prevented from writing because – hey … we only allow you to write in the notebook using a green Parker pen.

Now the free speech people would be up in arms if something this outrageous were to transpire in the general larger world ... and yet ... here in the tech industry ... we accept this as ok?

C'mon ... give me a break.

I have no problem with a manufacturer deciding that they will no longer support a device that they have produced.
What I *do* have a problem with, is a manufacturer who decides that they will no longer support a device, but then they won't allow people who use that device to support themselves.

It's all well and good if you as a design engineer are only ever using the latest and greatest. Wonderful - you are drinking the Alterna/Xilinx/...(brand of your choice) Kool Aid. Life is good. Where is the issue?

Consider though the poor sod who has to come in later and deal with something 20+ years old. Different story ....

What I think should happen is that if a manufacturer decides that they will drop support for a device that they have produced, then any IP associated for maintaining that device should be released to the general public – both in a binary and a source form.

By all means … don't provide any additional support, but by the same token, don't stop people from helping themselves.

That would be an ideal case …

This however is a utopian (and somewhat naive) view though that I personally can't see happening as:
a) its not in their interests.
b) you would be fighting the stupidity of the way that copyright and so-forth work.

(If there was ever a reason to have the lawyers of the world lined up and shot … this would be it).

… and at this point … I'm going to step down off my soap box and end my rant.

The original poster was after the older software – which I'm going to make the assumption is the old Lattice software, because I have also had first hand experience with not being able to get hold of - despite what Lattice actually say on their web site.

Forum policy dictates that in order to avoid the stupidity of the afore mentioned copyright that it doesn't get into trouble regarding people 'swapping wares'.

My view is that by all means – don't allow people to swap software, but then don't prevent people from saying:

“Hey – I need this … if someone has it … can they please send it back to the original manufacturers so at least they then can't say that they don't have it – because right now, they are saying they can't help me as they don't have the software any more”.

Hopefully this now ends the non-helpful part of the thread and the next posts we'll see are someone saying:

“Yeah ...I've got it … let me know who in Lattice/Altera/(vendor of your choice) you want me to talk to and I'll arrange to upload it to them"

(The vendor will have to treat any such ISO as though it has the plague though .... who *knows* what it may or may not have been infected with ... which is why I'm so adamant that this sort of IP should be release in a source form).
 

andre_teprom

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The OP's last activity was 20th July 2015, more than 45 days ago.
Once the discussion is deviating from the original question, thread will now be closed.
 

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