Laser printer for PCB question

[FoxyRick]

Hi Whacko,

No, I didn't try with acetone or toluene. I have not heard of that before. As a science (especially chemistry) teacher, maybe I should have thought of it!

I tried the iron method, and even modified an A4 laminating machine to take the boards. I went back to UV methods as I could never get fine traces to work cleanly.

I will definately give it a try - 0.1mm resolution without so much effort sounds good! I can't try yet, as I am moving house in a few weeks. But I have some CPLD's and DS80C400 MCU's, both 100-pin QFP package sitting here, just waiting for time to play with.

As soon as I am settled in my new "laboratory", it's the first thing I'll do.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll let you know how I go on.

Cheers,
FoxyRick.

 

[777*]

Hello, Longfuse

I have read that with Epson Inkjet Printer and Epson transparencies it is possible to achieve a high quality artwork (better than with Laser Printer, especially when covered areas are large). Try this link https://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/messages. I am sure you will find the answers to the most of your questions.

Good Luck

777*

 

[Gorilla]

Should be this link https://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/messages (the original link had a dot appended).

 

[pisoiu]

Foxyrick,
0.1mm? This is a good resolution even in industrial environment. I think, in the best case, after the pcb is done, you will have to check carefully every trace which is so thin. At this width even a small piece of dust left on a film or trapped between copper and resist can interrupt a trace.

 

[cyberrat]

Printing the PCB twice with a laser & sticking one on top of the other, providing there is no shrinkage etc, can make the traces much darker.

As for the spray,. I have heard that WD40 does the same? (may need testing out).

Roland.

 

[pool_77]

I am using plastic box (from bakelite, any termoset) which is covered by glass borad. There is sticked a prinded paper on inner side of glass.
In box is poured a little of toluene. It is common toluene for solventing of paints.
Time can be since 15-60 min. It is not critical.

The glass I am using for weighting of paper during exposition.

pool_77

 

[Bat]

0.1 mm seem very thin.

I have sucessfully made 0.2mm (trace on PCB layout on screen are 8 mil 0.2032 mm, but on PCB ..)
with very traditionnal elements :

-HP6L printer
-calque paper (used for drawing, the cheapeast ..), not really transparent

The reveling is made at 25° (it realy change things). Also this process is helped by manually moving piece of rag on the PCB

I manage to control the gravure process, and constantly move and check the PCB.

I'm sure it's not easy to reproduce ...
(made only two PCB like this, and only one face)

**broken link removed**
(sorry, page in french)

first version
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second version with zoom on potentiel problems
**broken link removed**

After tinning, result is good on PCB trace partially 'eated' ...
**broken link removed**
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[edit, remove most of image, too slow too load ...]

 

[Whacko]

Hi FoxyRick,

When you try the acetone or other solvent, don't put too much solvent on and don't press down too hard. Make sure the copper is clean and oilfree.
Let me know after your first try. If you have some hassles let me know, I will assist you, but I'm sure you'll get the knack of it. What's good about this method is, the solvent takes care of tine pinholes etc. If you want to strenghen the toner after transfer, apply some moderate heat with hot air gun or over Bunsen burner.

Regards,

Whacko

 

[Longfuse]

Thanks for all the info everyone. I’ve done some experimenting today and have come up with two methods that work well (well enough for me anyway) using an inkjet.

The first I came up with myself, though I’d be surprised if someone else hasn’t tried this. I just printed out my artwork onto some standard ‘glossy’ transparency film intended for use with an inkjet (Ryman’s own brand). I then placed it on my board, placed a sheet of ‘grease proof paper’ over it then developed it. Without the paper it doesn’t work, the ink isn’t opaque enough, but with it I got excellent results.

The second method used that ‘transparent’ spray I mentioned in an earlier post. It’s made in Belgium by ‘Kontakt Chemie’ and is available from ESR in the UK. I just printed off my work onto paper, sprayed this stuff on, slapped it to some board and developed it. Results were very good, though not as sharp as the first method. A lot seems to depend on the paper you use. The stuff I normally use works fine, but a photocopy from the local print shop was really poor (despite the image being darker and crisper).

Anyway, thanks again for all your replies!

 

[textik]

Hey Wacko,
is the coated paper a transparent type of paper?
Can you put here the manufacturer code?
Thanks

 

[Mr_Programmer]

Hi @all,

I'm using two foil printouts (Inkjet or Laser) and put them together on my pcb, I get good dark results. My used resulution is 0,4mm, it works in more than 90%.
But is the better to check each PCB!!! You can get so nice problems...


Greetings :wink:

 

[Boardstiff]

I Have used the special pcb film you use a laser printer to put your artwork on the film , then iron on the film to the pcb , then peel of the film and it leaves you the resist tracks in black , etch normaly , then scrub the resist film off works fine every time .

in the UK Maplin sell it
it's called press & peel

 

[halabat]

I have use different methods:

1. Using Epson Inkjet printer on HP Tranparencies Film for Inkjet printers
(expensive) -> works only with epson's original ink

2. Using standard tranparencies on Laserjet 5 (cheap) but you have to
take 2 films at one time!!! Not for small traces!!!

3. Using plotter tranparent paper with Laserjet 5, works fine!! I'm making
traces with 0.01 inch!!

 

[kl1k]

I want to try photoresist spray, uv and a laserjet. What the best paper to use in the laser? Has anyone used tracing paper successfully?

 

[pool_77]

Yes it works OK.
Use the ticker variant (it is for printing).

(sometimes, I print blank page the first on a laser printer and then print on the scheet again. It removes humidity from paper and stabilise dimensions)

pool_77

 

[medap]

This metod is working without any film and PressnPeel.I use for printing with laser printer sheets from Elfa catalogue, thick sheets.
Instruction:**broken link removed**

 

[bbarney]

i use press & peel and high quality inkjet paper from epson ,but i goto an office supply store where they have a dozen photo copiers.the toner seems to be way more stable than laser jet and because of the high traffic the toner is always fresh,try it to see if its differant?

 

[Git]

Whacko's Acetone Method

Right, gave this a test a today with very disappointing results

I printed 1200dpi at max darkness onto Epson matt photo paper, which is coated inkjet paper. I placed the print toner side down onto the very clean copper surface, wetted a rag with acetone and rubbed. I tried rubbing lightly, rubbing hard. Each time the results were similar. 90% of the toner stays on the paper and 10% sticks in a hole ridden blotchy manner to the copper, looking very thin and incomplete.

Any ideas what I am doing wrong?. has anybody else made this method work sucessfully?. Should the paper go transparent as the acetone is applied, or is too much acetone being used if that happens?.

Any help appreciated as I would love to get this working. I have to do double sided with 0.4mm DRC so any registration hints appreciated too.

TIA,

Git

 

[bbarney]

Sorry Git I should have specified which method i use.I use hot iron set at its highest setting for 4to 5 min for Epson High Quality ink Jet Paper stock no. S041111, NOT Photo paper.AND FOR PRESS & PEEL you have to turn the iron down to 1/2 and 3 to 4 min. As for the acetone method sounds like your getting it too wet and the toner is running,the same thing happens with the iron if it get's to hot. hope this helps

BB

 

[Git]

Barney, by "the acetone method" I meant the method described by Whacko in this same thread, where no heat is used at all, so I was really making a thread comment rather than replying to you directly. However, what you say makes sense. I've also seen the paper and image completely fail to stick if there is too much acetone.

Git