Hight voltage signal generator.

[JoKKeR]

hydrogen generator with razor blades

I need to get capacitor breakdown effect (ping effect)

Ill bring up example to create better view.

Iv got 2 metal plates. distance is about 1 cm. I need charge to ping from 1 plate to 2. plate.
Something like that, i do not it for visual effect...

Can u bring up some equations what can help me....
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So iv made sketch but iv got no idea what output do i need. I need it for electrolysis.

What transformer do i need, can i find 1 with ratio 100+ ? How much VA i need ?
So far as i know i need hight voltage to get breakdown (ping), i no not need hight amperage in output right ?[/img]

 

[FvM]

I don't think that you can operate a high voltage supply from 555 timer output, neither virtual nor real part. You can expect about 10 kV breakdown voltage. I don't think, that I can give easy help for designing a HV supply. I have an ESD test generator that is build around a TV HV transformer and cascade, producing up to 25 kV.

I wonder, how the topic may be related to electrolysis?

 

[JoKKeR]

Yeah resistance of air is 30kv/cm (breakdown)

I want to create circuity to a HHO generator


But what about transformer... can i raise voltage 100x+ ?

 

[FvM]

But what about transformer... can i raise voltage 100x+ ?

Not easily. I told, that I have been using an existing TV part with a cascade multiplier.
I get about 1000x DC input voltage in this case. But it has an output current below < 1 mA, sufficient for my application.

I have noticed, that the internet is resounding with plasma electrolysis discussions, related also to cold fusion and other objects
of 21th century belief in miracles. If you are also running behind such curiosities, good luck.

 

[JoKKeR]

Actually its not my dream im chasing .. lol

It is just a interesting project to do, although i need project to finish school right. If it is going to work it will be amazing.

But it is not actually a cold fusion ... its is just electrolysis, i do not remember actually but my chemistry titza told something about it.
It is just separating 2 O-s from H2O

Simple as it is.

Also iv found another video.

https://www.metacafe.com/watch/938147/build_hydrogen_generator_cell_with_household_items/

I guess it works basically on capacitor breakdown effect.
I guess pulsing it will increase effectivety

 

[FvM]

Water HHO electrolysis starts at about 1 V DC and is usually performed at low voltage of few volts in all technical applications. Additional voltage would produce more heat but the same amount of gas, cause it's proportional to current integral according to coulombs law. You can consult a chemistry or physics textbook in case of doubt.

There are apparently some interesting physical effects, that can be observed when applying high voltage and high energy to liquids, but they are generally not related to electrolysis, as far as I know.

 

[JoKKeR]

Huh ... i cant still get it?
It simple
Some ppl makes cars run on this principle.

But it is not popular.

I guess it is tricky



Ill build up this simple HHO generator by following this tutorial. Ill see what happens...
I guess phone adapter makes same as laptop. coz no way im using laptop 1.

 

[DrBob13]

I think that a big square flashlight cell, an automotive battery or a battery charger, will work just as well as a laptop power supply for your water electrolysis experiments, probably better than the phone charger that you mentioned but stick with low voltages as FvM has suggested and stay safe.

To do it with a high voltage to see the 'interesting effects' that FvM mentions requires bits of kit that are a bit more sophisticated than you are likely to find laying around in the average home.

I was once involved in some work on an electronic sparker unit which was used as a siesmic source for geophysical testing, this made an noise similar to a stick of dynamite, which it was meant to replace. This equipment used some seriously expensive parts that were very difficult to get hold of, probably impossible now the world is in the state that it is and a quite sophisticated switch mode power supply with a high voltage trigger component to discharge a big bank of capacitors through an inductor and spark-gap. Members of the team treated it in ways that ranged from a healthy respect to undisguised fear.

If you use a few drops of battery acid instead of salt to make your water conductived you will not get the brown precipitation (iron II hydroxide) that could be seen in the video but you will still only get the same amount of hydrogen liberated from the water. The solution will probably go a bit greenish brown after a while because the razor blades used as electrodes will dissolve slowly, you would have to use a noble metal like platinum to avoid this, which is unlikly to be laying around at home.
Bob.

 

[JoKKeR]

U made it pretty clear to me that hight voltage is dangerous...
Actually i thought about thing like sticking battery to the transformer the null get a little spark.

First of all ill see what these razor blades in the water will do.
I have regulative power supply too with "short circuit" protection, i quess ill get more power out of it.
On the other hand protection system will fail it, coz it got break point, which can ruin experiment.


Anyway ill build it up simple as i can and see what happens. It would be great if ill see bubbles coming, next thing ill try to increase number of plates (area)

Will see what happens. ill post something when its done. Its Friday i guess it wont be finished today.

By the way iv wired razor blades but i guess i need to solder them.

Added after 35 minutes:

There are some renders i made

 

[DrBob13]

Your apparatus looks really great, you are well on the way to making a lot of hydrogen, use your kit with the regulated power supply and either salt water or water with a little battery acid added and watch the hydrogen bubble. Remember though that you will get a lot of hydrogen from your apparatus and this is explosive if mixed with air, it wants to go back to being water again!!! A small amount mixeds with air will give you a really loud pop like you hear in the video, if you accidentally quarter fill a room with it you will create an explosion that will blow the windows out, your apparatus could easily make that much gas.
Also remember the act of switching on your power supply generates a little spark in the switch that could ignite the gas when you were not expecting it to if it has escaped into the room, be careful and have lots of fun.

Hydrogen is comletely colorless, odourless and burns hotter and a lot faster than gasoline, the space shuttle runs on liquid hydrogen as its main fuel, even NASA got that wrong once.

Bob.

 

[JoKKeR]

Iv made 1 with razor blades.

First of all hydrogen output depends much on voltage.
on 1v it was unnoticeable, at 27 v what was max it was huge. It was like boiling water.

Water became first of all green then brown.
I guess its due razor blades and unclean water i used.

 

[FvM]

Using clean water would result in effectively zero current flow. Impurities are necessary for the experiment, but their
electrolysis products also react with the electrodes or occur in the generator gas, e. g. chlorine with sodium chloride
(table salt) as an impurity. Remember. that DrBob13 suggested traces of battery acid instead.

As the generator produces oxyhydrogen (HHO) rather than pure hydrogen, the generator gas is explosive also inside
the generator. It may be ignited e. g. by sparks from electrode shorts or loose cable connections. This should be
considered when operating the generator cell.

In technical electrolysis applications, both electrodes usually have individual gas space, and possibly a diaphragm separating
them. Then oxygen and hydrogen have individual gas outputs. In a laboratory scale, this is achieved by a U shaped tube
as electrolysis cell, a drawing should be present in most chemistry or physics textbooks.