Help me select DSP board for MA degree project

[bluethunder7000]

Dear All

I tried these days to select a DSP EVM for may master degree.

I need to have one board with ethernet interface plus A/D module.

I searched a lot in TI, Freescale, & dsPic and i coudn't found something can provide the ethernet connection plus the Microcontroller features like (DSC)

So i need any data regading this board.

Thanks

 

[dsp4us]

DSP Selection

Any Blackfin boards with daughter card:
https://www.analog.com/processors/platforms/index.html
for example: ADSP-BF533 EZ-KIT Lite + USB-LAN EZ-Extender

Cheers

 

[bluethunder7000]

Re: DSP Selection

Is there any daugther cards for (TI or Freescale) DSPs?

 

[cydi]

DSP Selection

why do you want an ethernet interface specifically? Hope it is not for debugging DSP... Otherwise go for the blackfin one...

 

[bluethunder7000]

Re: DSP Selection

Hi cydi

I need the Ethernet to be able to communicate –send & receive data- between the DSP and the PC though the Ethernet (TCP/IP) protocol

I made a lot of research to buy a DSP kit and I found that the Ethernet daughter card for C2000 is very expensive plus I didn't found any daughter card for the Motorola DSPs.

The hardware which I found is the DSPic on mikroElektronika website. It is a complete development tool with small Ethernet daughter card and many other options and examples.

My main point is measure the voltage and current with phase angle from high voltage line and stamp a time reference from GPS clock signal on the measurement values so send this values to a central PC though the Ethernet link.

So I need to know which DSP is better and suitable for this scheme and equipped with A/D + Ethernet cards. Plus which is good DSP or DSC ?


Thanks

 

[dsp4us]

DSP Selection

What kind of processing is intended on DSP? It looks like you do not really need one. 16/32 bit microcontrollers could do time stamping, net interfacing and simple math without problem. Take a look at www.sparkfun.com - you could assemble something workable out that stuff.

 

[bluethunder7000]

Re: DSP Selection

Thanks dsp4us for the website. It is really useful.

The processing which I need to use is FFT algorithm or more accurate other algorithms [It is under study]. I will build an interface circuit to a HV power line. I need to calculate the Current & voltage in magnitude with angle. This calculation will be done in normal steady state cases and in fault cases like (Line to line fault or Line to ground fault…etc).

DSP will help me to process the FFT in high speed to calculate the required measurements from sine wave with harmonics.

I will design hardware like the PMU (Phasor measurement unit) which is used in the power line network to analyze it. And use two of this unit to determine the fault location on the high voltage transmission line.

So I go forward to DSP because I need first a chip can calculate mathematical equations plus can provide me a high speed processing (MHz).

Referring to my point, I need to know which DSP is suitable for this application.
I hope to find a good reference for this point.

Thanks again

 

[dsp4us]

DSP Selection

It looks like very interesting application, good for really useful product (or even start up).

1. Once there were some DSP chips specifically targeted FFT applications, but I don't hear about any commercially successful ones. Sharp's BUTTERFLY DSP BDSP91V24/93V20 might be only. but this is exotics.

2. Concerning your application - you should take in account strong electromagnetic field these DSP have to reliably work in. Those chips shall be properly environmentally graded: might be military or industry graded? Otherwise sudden changes in HV will wipe out you code easily.

3. As long you are at school - you are learning marketable skills. I would suggest not to use Motorola DSP. Now it is Freescale and future of this architecture is unknown (read dead). Chose from TI or ADI only. Call (e-mail) their tech support and describe the problem - that is their job and they are the best who could suggest anything. You could negotiate even university discount or get the board for free. Give it a try.

Cheers.

 

[Nandulal]

Re: DSP Selection

You can use microchip's dSPIC for this application. This DSP is reasonably fast and as you are in academics then the most important part of DSPIC is that it comes in DIP package. For the Ethernet, you can use ENC28J60 from microchip.

Also you can use Proteus for the simulation of Ethernet circuit. (dsPIC can't simulate in Proteus)

Calculation power angle (cos Φ) can be done by measuring active power (KW) and KVA i.e in other words by measuring voltage and current in the load. The sampling time of ADC is depends upon what is the max dominating frequency you need in your application. Let us say if you need 11th harmonic then for 60Hz the sampling time can be 11 * 60 = 660 Hz. Hence 660 * 5 = 3.3KHz. i.e 300 uS.

Also in power instrumentation, there are 16 samples per cycle is the normal standard. So by considering all, I can suggest you to go ahead with dsPIC. Microchip can give 3 samples of any chip.

enjoy.
Nandu

 

[bluethunder7000]

Re: DSP Selection

It looks like very interesting application, good for really useful product (or even start up).

1. Once there were some DSP chips specifically targeted FFT applications, but I don't hear about any commercially successful ones. Sharp's BUTTERFLY DSP BDSP91V24/93V20 might be only. but this is exotics.

2. Concerning your application - you should take in account strong electromagnetic field these DSP have to reliably work in. Those chips shall be properly environmentally graded: might be military or industry graded? Otherwise sudden changes in HV will wipe out you code easily.

3. As long you are at school - you are learning marketable skills. I would suggest not to use Motorola DSP. Now it is Freescale and future of this architecture is unknown (read dead). Chose from TI or ADI only. Call (e-mail) their tech support and describe the problem - that is their job and they are the best who could suggest anything. You could negotiate even university discount or get the board for free. Give it a try.

Cheers.

Thanks for your advice dsp4us, I sent an email to the technical support of TI & ADI and I received a reply from ADI. It is a normal reply with links which refer to some specified pages in them web site:

This is the links for information:

1: Refer the following link for the ADI web selection guide which has the features and applications about all the ADI processors:
**broken link removed**.

I would suggest you to go through the above link and decide the processor for your application. Since you have mentioned about the Ethernet interface, I would suggest to check for the Blackfin processors. The BF536 and BF537 processors have an Ethernet MAC support.

2: The following link has the product pages for all the ADI processors:
http://www.analog.com/processors/productIndex/index.html.

Once you have decided about the processor the complete details about the processor can be obtained from the above link. The product page link also provides you with the prices and the availability of the parts.

3: You can refer the following link for the processor manuals, datasheets, application notes and code examples:
http://www.analog.com/processors/technicalSupport/technicalLibrary/

4: These manuals have the detailed description and the programming of the core and peripherals. Please refer the following link for the VDSP++ development tools:
http://www.analog.com/processors/visualDSP/testDrive.html.

5: And refer the following link for the available evaluation kit board details:
http://www.analog.com/processors/productIndex/index.html#CROSSCORE DSP Development Tools

6: Please refer the following link for our sales and distributors:
http://www.analog.com/salesdir/continent.asp
Please contact the Sales and distributors for your locality to place the order

I didn’t get any reply from Ti. But I noticed that the Ethernet module in TI or ADI with price half price of the main DSP board (The Ethernet module is very expensive compared to the price of DSP board)
I think that the fixed point DSP will be suitable for my application.

You can use microchip's dSPIC for this application. This DSP is reasonably fast and as you are in academics then the most important part of DSPIC is that it comes in DIP package. For the Ethernet, you can use ENC28J60 from microchip.

Also you can use Proteus for the simulation of Ethernet circuit. (dsPIC can't simulate in Proteus)

Calculation power angle (cos Φ) can be done by measuring active power (KW) and KVA i.e in other words by measuring voltage and current in the load. The sampling time of ADC is depends upon what is the max dominating frequency you need in your application. Let us say if you need 11th harmonic then for 60Hz the sampling time can be 11 * 60 = 660 Hz. Hence 660 * 5 = 3.3KHz. i.e 300 uS.

Also in power instrumentation, there are 16 samples per cycle is the normal standard. So by considering all, I can suggest you to go ahead with dsPIC. Microchip can give 3 samples of any chip.

Thank you for your advise and I want to know more about dsPIC. Is it suitable for industrial field or just for academic field?

I go to website _www.mikroelektronika.co.yu_ to see the development board for dsPIC. And I saw good offers there in this page:
**broken link removed**

And select this board but it doesn’t come with dsPIC MCU (With price):
**broken link removed**

Plus I saw the Ethernet module (With price):
**broken link removed**

But when I go to see any good technical support or a lot of example in microchip website, I saw a little amount of information in it and not compared with TI or ADI.

As a general:

I would like to ask the following questions:

1: Is dsPIC is suitable for my application and is there any website have a lot of information or technical support for it?

2: I noticed that ADI is little cheaper than TI but in same time I noticed that Ethernet module is more expensive than the one which is existed in mikroelektonika website. Why?

3: Can I get any good offers from TI or ADI on them product?

4: Which is better in programming, simulating and connected to matlab, TI or ADI or dsPIC?

5: I will use the matlab as a software in central PC which will receive the data from DSP though Ethernet link and an analyze it. So is it a good selection or there is another way to do that? And is the matlab can do this or not?

6: I noticed that dsPIC is 16 bit & 40MZ where the C2000 series is 150Mhz and 32bit, Which is better for my application, 16 bit or 32bit plus 40Mhz or more MHz?

7: Which is better DSP or DSC?

I am really hope to find a good DSP for my application

Best Regards

M.Alaa

 

[bluethunder7000]

Re: DSP Selection

Any advise ??

 

[Mr.MEB]

DSP Selection

I would like to share my opinion about this subject:
You should first try to quantify your processing power requirement:
How long (cycles) will my dsp algorithm take to finish?
What is the speed needed for AD conversion?
What is the interrupt latency in the different architectures? How interrupts are handled?

I think dSPic series is not a very powerful dsp family. For example take the ADuC ARM7 family, their 32 bit processors with Multiply Accumulate Capability and with 12-bit 1MSPS ADC and DACs I think they are better for doing dsp than dsPICs.

But I think that for your application you a dsPIc is sufficient.

2. if 10baseT is sufficient for your application (I think it should be) go for the cheapest.

 

[bluethunder7000]

Re: DSP Selection

I would like to share my opinion about this subject:
You should first try to quantify your processing power requirement:
How long (cycles) will my dsp algorithm take to finish?
What is the speed needed for AD conversion?
What is the interrupt latency in the different architectures? How interrupts are handled?

I think dSPic series is not a very powerful dsp family. For example take the ADuC ARM7 family, their 32 bit processors with Multiply Accumulate Capability and with 12-bit 1MSPS ADC and DACs I think they are better for doing dsp than dsPICs.

But I think that for your application you a dsPIc is sufficient.

2. if 10baseT is sufficient for your application (I think it should be) go for the cheapest.

Thanks a lot for your opinion Mr.MEB

I sent to Ti and ADI to check the prices of the main DSP motherboard plus the Ethernet board and I found that those prices are very high compared to dsPIC prices. And the price of TI board is higher than ADI board.

I need a DSP or DSC for my application and for my master and I will build one prototype as a main prototype. If it will work as I need, I will build another prototype because the fault detection on the HV line needs two devices like that.

May be the dsPIC is not powerful because it is 40Mhz speed( As I knew from microchip website ) but I saw several data and examples on TI & ADI more than dsPIC.

Thanks

 

[dsp4us]

DSP Selection

Take a look, this one meets your requirements:
https://www.gaotek.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=636

* On-board TMS320F2812 DSP, 32-bit fix-point Flash DSP, operating at 150Mhz
* 128K*16 bits on-chip Flash program memory, Flash encryptable
* 18K*16 bits on-chip SRAM
* 64K*16 bits extended SRAM as program/data RAM (upgradable to 512K*16 bits)
* 2Kbit serial EEprom
* 10M Ethernet interface, compatible with NE2000
* 8 user buttons
* 2 RS232 interfaces, 1 CAN 2.0 interface
* Power on reset & manual reset
* LCD interface(driver compatible with SED1335, S1D13700, ST7920, HD44780, KS0066, SPLC780 etc.)
* 3 extended shielded interrupt inputs
* 2 extended unshielded interrupt inputs
* 16 inputs,16 outputs
* 2 D/A outputs(12bit,0-5V,3us)
* 16 A/D inputs(12bit ,0-3v,80nS)
* Interface/Driver circuit for DC motor and Servomotor
* 8 Indication LEDs
* On-board VL-Bus, data/address/control leadout wires and special function pins with leadout wires

 

[bluethunder7000]

Re: DSP Selection

Take a look, this one meets your requirements:
https://www.gaotek.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=636

* On-board TMS320F2812 DSP, 32-bit fix-point Flash DSP, operating at 150Mhz
* 128K*16 bits on-chip Flash program memory, Flash encryptable
* 18K*16 bits on-chip SRAM
* 64K*16 bits extended SRAM as program/data RAM (upgradable to 512K*16 bits)
* 2Kbit serial EEprom
* 10M Ethernet interface, compatible with NE2000
* 8 user buttons
* 2 RS232 interfaces, 1 CAN 2.0 interface
* Power on reset & manual reset
* LCD interface(driver compatible with SED1335, S1D13700, ST7920, HD44780, KS0066, SPLC780 etc.)
* 3 extended shielded interrupt inputs
* 2 extended unshielded interrupt inputs
* 16 inputs,16 outputs
* 2 D/A outputs(12bit,0-5V,3us)
* 16 A/D inputs(12bit ,0-3v,80nS)
* Interface/Driver circuit for DC motor and Servomotor
* 8 Indication LEDs
* On-board VL-Bus, data/address/control leadout wires and special function pins with leadout wires

Many Thanks dsp4us, I am really appreciate your effort to help me

Frankly after I found that the TI DSP (Socket Version) & Ethernet module will cost me a lot. I decided to use the dsPIC. I saw that mikroelktronika website offers a dsPIC Board with a lot of added modules on the board and use DSP (dsPIC33FJ128GP710) 40 MHz

Really after I saw the above board, I am now confused and I don't know which one is better for my application

The main problem in the above board is that the DSP is not housed in socket where I need this feature because I will use two DSP one with the main board and the other will be programmed with the main board and will be used in another circuit (another module). Because my application (Fault detection) needs two PMU units and I don't want to buy two complete board to do this. It will be very expensive to do that.

The main thing I want in the DSP board is that the DSP should be housed in a socket

So could you please advise me in this matter?

BR
M.A

 

[dsp4us]

DSP Selection

Anyway decision is only yours. I don't really understand your idea of needing socket based board. Do you want to share processor by moving it form board to board?
TI provide free samples for development. It is true that this DSP seems have only BGA packaging and it is hard to solder without special equipment. On other hand TI has lots and lots useful information available: https://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/tms320f2812.html#applicationnotes
I have no experience working with PIC processors and cannot comment on your choice.

Good luck.
Michael

 

[azam1]

DSP Selection

need the manual of dsp openheim book

 

[priyankguddu]

Re: DSP Selection

Try for Blackfin dude

 

[rkarthik1]

Re: DSP Selection

I would personally suggest the blackfin.. the 534/536/537 family has the ethernet mac on chip and the phy on the EZ Kit.. they are fairly easy to learn and to program and the tools suite is the best I've used (having said that TI's CCS is pretty similar but there are some things I like better in VisualDSP). If you are at an univ, try routing it through your dept. I've found that departments are usually more than willing to buy hardware that students need (and plus they get univ pricing as well).

About socketed boards, you will find those very hard to come by (especially evaluations platforms). The only socketed boards I've seen are in house bring up boards used for debugging. In fact you will have a hard time finding anything other than the now fairly standard mBGA boards..

Anyway, all the best..

k