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ferromagnetic transformer

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freeman2

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heres a oldie revisited...stanley a meyers water fuel cell

**broken link removed**

Meyer built a water powered buggy, it was based on his vic tansformer that gave a potential difference out but no current enabling him to split water by a different process.

Meyers vic is at its very basic 3 secondarys wired in series driven by a primary, if you go on a electronics forum and explain this can be made to give a full potential difference out while stopping the influx of current they will give you funny looks. No electronics design engineer will be able to build you such a device from meyers patents.

By changeing the wire from copper to iron on meyers vic we get a very different effect.
i have uncovered that iron is unique in that each atom has a magnetic moment, that is each atom has a north and south pole. These atoms, or electron spin which gives this magnetism, can be manipulated by a external field. With this magnetic field each atom can be aligned to face each other north to south poles. They will then be attracted to each other giveing a effect know as electron clustering. In this state the influx of electrons into your circuit will be stopped.

Below is links showing us some basic physics involved, take the time to read the actual articles, you can start to pick out relevent information and piece together what i am saying.

We can see here how external fields affect electron spin.

When a piece of ferromagnetic material is placed into an external magnetic field, two things happen.
The spins in each domain shift so that the magnetic moments of the electrons become more aligned with the direction of the field.
Domains aligned with the field expand and take over regions previously occupied by domains aligned opposite to the field.
source **broken link removed**

this covers permanent magnets but still has relevant information

"Instead, every electron is a tiny magnet due to its inherent magnetism (what we call electron spin).
Furthermore, the alignment of the electron spins makes a hunk of iron (magnetite) into a magnetic lodestone.
All atoms have electrons with electron spin and magnetic fields due to their orbits about the nucleus. But not all material is magnetic like the lodestone (ferromagnetic). If the electron spins of an atom's electrons are aligned oppositely, their magnetic fields cancel. That's what happens with tissue paper, flesh, or other non-ferromagnetic substances.
Each iron atom, on the other hand, has four electrons whose spin magnetism doesn't cancel. They line up. Aligned magnetic fields make matter magnetic.
Iron is a peculiar, remarkable substance. Its aligned-field electrons spontaneously couple and form small long-lasting domains. The spins inside these microscopic domains are almost perfectly aligned. Most domains, though, aren't aligned. In common un-magnetized iron, many domains are randomly oriented"
source USATODAY.com - Magical magnetism, electron 'spin' and easy iron paths

Some materials are unsuitable like copper here it explains why

Since all matter is made up of atoms and all atoms have electrons that are in motion, do all atoms have magnetic fields?
The answer to this question is yes and no. All the electrons do produce a magnetic field as they spin and orbit the nucleus; however, in some atoms, two electrons spinning and orbiting in opposite directions pair up and the net magnetic moment of the atom is zero. Remember that the direction of spin and orbit of the electron determines the direction of the magnetic field. Electron pairing occurs commonly in the atoms of most materials. In the experiment you observed a helium atom showing two electrons spinning and orbiting around the protons and neutrons of the nucleus. The two electrons are paired, meaning that they spin and orbit in opposite directions. Since the magnetic fields produced by the motion of the electrons are in opposite directions, they add up to zero. The overall magnetic field strength of atoms with all paired electrons is zero.
source **broken link removed**

Such a transformer is possible.
 

freeman2

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could you point a problem out with the physics, or could you not be bothered reading?
 

freeman2

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Are you saying the physics links are wrong? spintronics technology is a lie? or do you base what you are saying on a lack of understanding
 

FvM

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For my sake, it's O.K. to send speculative posts at edaboard, contradicting commonly accepted laws of physics, although I think, you did it in the wrong forum. But in my opinion, you should bear critical comments - of different forms.

I understand, that your personal contribution is to claim special properties of a transformer using ferromagnetic wire for the windings. At first sight, I suspect a lack of understanding of transformator operation principle. Unfortunately, a more thorough reading couldn't yet disprove the assumption.
 

freeman2

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fvm, , this post is to get the sharper minds out there thinking. the physics i have shown is NOT contradicting accepted laws of physics its currently being used to develope advanced electronics (spintronics) as well as in other fields. Can you prove its not excepted? it was first proved in 1921, Otto Stern and Walter Gerlach. Electron spin

Did you know that a iron wire transformer multiplys induced current? you can prove this yourself by winding one and comparing to a identical copper wound. there`s always something more to learn.

@nsaspook

i am talking about a different type of transformer design, what is this free energy crap? you have so far proved ignorant and childish any further posts i will report you.
 

xaccto

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ok, putting aside the outlandish claims of Stan Meyer (ok he *may* have stumbled across some curious physical effects, but he is on public record as a charlatan,
and exaggerated claims of what those effects he may/or may not have discovered was able to do and postulated inventions around them)

Ok, so i'm a bit intrigued about the electron spin effect, and then what may be measured by using iron wire.
But iron wire will suffer poorly conductively compared to copper......so conductivity losses!.........

A bit of a google check, can you even get < 1ton of insulated iron wire of small diameter......

I think this question delves into quantum effects etc etc,... must admit I still don't get much of what quantum theory is,
anyway @freeman2, I suggest you field a question to a discerning forum like Physics Help and Math Help - Physics Forums - but don't mention the Stan Meyers and his water cell nonsense bit,
you simply want answers about the possible electron spin effects produced by iron, if wound into a coil, etc,etc...
 

freeman2

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iron wire anyone?

Crazy Wire Company Ltd Iron Wires

its not ideal but has the magic word "cheap"

Iron has a stronger magnetic field than copper but will generate a lot more heat with high(ish) current flow.

electron spin is not as complicated as many first think, google electron spin and millions of nano gobble-d-gook results comes up, we deal with electronics. But electron spin is where electronics meets magnetism and does not just apply to nano tech. take magnetic induction, it is the electron spin that is involved in inducing emf. main stream science still provides no real answer as to how magnetic induction happens just a analogy.

I have posted on physics forum, electron spin is not main stream so it appears only a few pick this up straight away.
forget meyer we have science now to learn some new tricks.
 
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nsaspook

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Electrons are simply the charge carriers for energy. Changing it's physical or quantum characteristics within matter only alters it's ability to transport energy in space or the transformation to other forms of energy (heat mainly). Sure there is research into iron based high temperature superconductors using spin coupling, but building a transformer with regular iron wire is a good method to make a space heater.
**broken link removed**
www.cas.cn/ky/kyjz/201106/P020110622332119091849.pdf

PS: You linked to a free energy crap page in the OP and that's an open season for me.
Honda - The Cog - YouTube
 
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FvM

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I presume most edaboard members know, that regular transformers are utilizing ferromagnetism in the magnetic core. Those interested in physical theory will also know, that electron spin is in fact the mechanism behind it. In so far, the second part of the original post is mostly quoting wellknown physical facts related to transformers.

To analyze possible effects of ferromagnetic wires, you have to refer to how magnetical field, current and voltage are linked in a transformer. For many engineers (including myself), design of transformers is a kind of everydays work. From this knowledge, I don't see a large effect of using ferromagnetic wires in a regular transformer, except for
- increasing current losses (already addressed)
- possibly a minor increase of leak inductance

Did you know that a iron wire transformer multiplys induced current?
The statement needs clarification in terms of transformer quantities. Induced current is basically the transformed (by inverse windings ratio) primary current. How to multiply it? The magnetical field in the wire itself doesn't have noticable effect on it.

Honestly speaking, the "multiply" thing smells like perpetual motion, the same message that's given by the "water fuel" prelude.
 

freeman2

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fvm

wind a transformer with a primary that can be removed, or on a ferrite rod. then compare one copper wound primary to a iron primary. with the iron alloy wire link i give this will be about 2.5x the current out of the secondary. there is no magical claim, it will not save the world, it just happens. i personally think in a number of circuit designs this will be a superior replacement to copper.

you claimed that electron spin is not real science when infact it is currently being developed as a new advanced electronics shows that what you are not informed about, no matter how clever you are, you simply will not know.

honestly speaking for me you see this partly as a battle, which it is not, but you have the intelligence to look into the science and give a thoughtful opinion. there is only one conclusion with the iron wire experiment it does multiply induced current.
 
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FvM

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I fear, your test setup is too vague to be reproduced. I had asked for a clarification in terms of transformer quantities, so besides the windings and core geometry, the electric circuit connected to the primary and secondary winding (source and load) and the waveforms used for the test should be specified.
 

nsaspook

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I fear, your test setup is too vague to be reproduced. I had asked for a clarification in terms of transformer quantities, so besides the windings and core geometry, the electric circuit connected to the primary and secondary winding (source and load) and the waveforms used for the test should be specified.

You're wasting time. He was hood-winked by S. Meyer's stories of pixie dust, ground unicorn horns and Category:pseudoscience - RationalWiki
 

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Thanks for mentioning RationalWiki. I agree, that we didn't yet hear facts beyond pseudoscience.
 

freeman2

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ok for those who are interested in testing iron wire get 1 ferrite rod wind a iron and copper primary identical in size, dont make it to small otherwise trany may not cope. wind a secondary, not to small cos readings will be low, no point in to large its unnecessary work. use common sense. a simple coil driver circuit running on low voltage (12v) driven by a signal generator will suffice. now compare the two.
If you do not know how to build such a basic circuit find someone to help you.

becouse in iron electrons form magnetic dipoles its magnetic field has a greater strenght than copper blah blah blah see the science links i have given.

nsaspook is it not time to go see your little *** friend Aaron Murakami. oh and by the way, want to make a bet on the iron wire, its a bet i cannot loose and you know it.
 

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So you have an open ended cylindrical ferrite core. For winding wound on it, the magnetic flux path completes a circular path axially along
this core.
You introduce using an iron wire, which will have its own substantial magnetic flux possibly.
The effect could be like a fringing flux. I think the reluctivity of the core changes.
Reluctivity is to magnetic flux, what a resistance is to a battery source.
I would have expected it to be worse, but so you say the voltage seen on the secondary is higher with the iron wire.
But what power is being transferred, what current is drawn ?
The resistivity losses in the iron wire will be high when you do so.

Of course the game may change, when that wire is superconductive. However its not room temperature superconductors yet, so
energy is spent in achieving the low temperature environment. I fear THAT is not a diy hobby project. So I think it is rather moot to
practically look into this further, besides I have plenty of hobby projects in the pipeline screaming for attention and this one i'm yet
to be convinced its worth my time beyond a thought session and replying to this thread.
 

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Still vague setup:
- "simple coil driver" means current or voltage driven?
- frequency, waveform?
- secondary loaded or open circuit?
- you previously talked about "multiply induced current". Which current is multiplied in this setup?
 

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fvm

Would you like me to post you some wire, i have a jiffy bag, the post will be about the price of a pint so no big deal. Sorry for being vague its just i work with practical electronics mostly and you clearly have superior design skills, thats just a fact. with the wire you can knock together some quick tests for yourself.

I shall re-read the two posts and put together answers you can work with.

spook you protest to much, you are not just being immature you have a issue to disrupt any discussion, let it run its course. your last post is your last post ok.
 

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