Doubts on SMT components in ADS

[pusparaga]

Dear Sir,
I have noticed one thing in the SMT Capacitors and SMT Resistors. For example you take AVX company 805 case style 1PF and kmt company 805 case style 1PF. The following doubts I have

(1) Is there any value difference in these two companies
(2) Is there any quality difference in these companies
(3) Price difference I have noticed in these companies
(4) For the same case style and same capacitor values and same resistance values ,why they have given so companies capacitors and resistors
(5) Are there any difference in these companies apart from price, tolerance values, and value of the capacitor.
Can you clarify these doubts.
kmt 1206 case style 1.5 PF value capacitor and Philips 1206 case style 1.5 PF value capacitor I have following doubts
(1) What is difference in these two values capacitor other than price , tolerance, and capacitor values
(2) Why they have given separately these transistor companies same case style and same value of the capacitors
Can you anybody clarify these doubts
I have attached the AVX and KEMET company 805 case style 1PF value capacitors . KEMET and PHILIPS company 1.5 PF 1206 case style capacitors have shown in the following attachment

 

[pusparaga]

Dear Sir,
I really confused with points mentioned in the posting #1, can you anybody clear those doubts.

 

[vfone]

Let's compare a Lamborghini Aventador with a Ford Fiesta. Both cars have the same number of wheels and doors.

(1) Is there any value difference in these two companies--Yes
(2) Is there any quality difference in these companies--Yes
(3) Price difference I have noticed in these companies--Yes

This was kind of joke, but the above answers which compares two cars applied to companies which make capacitors, or any other electronic component in general.
If you want to differentiate by quality of components, you have to ask each company for samples and evaluate yourself those components and compare one to each other. And you will see differences.

 

[BigBoss]

The "RF and Microwave Forum" started to appear "edagoogle.com"...

 

[pusparaga]

(1) Is there any value difference in these two companies--Yes
(2) Is there any quality difference in these companies--Yes
(3) Price difference I have noticed in these companies--Yes

Sir,
Thank for your answer, I agree with your answer. I have one doubt, suppose case style 0603, Johnson company Capacitor 47PF value ,and tolerance +/- 5%. That johnson company capacitor is not included in my SMT capacitors library of ADS2009. Can I take same case style 0603, different company capacitor with same value 47PF, and same tolerance of +/-5% for simulation purpose. I agree with you quality, price and values of different companies are different.For simulation purpose , real world capacitor company is not available in the library of ADS2009. Now I can use the same case style 0603, with the same value capacitor 47PF, and same tolerance of +/- 5% of AVX company or some other available companies in the library. Is it O.K. for simulation purpose.

 

[volker@muehlhaus]

Can I take same case style 0603, different company capacitor with same value 47PF, and same tolerance of +/-5% for simulation purpose.

It is better than having no model, but you might get different results at high frequencies. The internal structure and the electrical response (parasitics) can be different.

If you have no other choice, select a model that has similar self resonance frequency (SRF).

 

[vfone]

Yes, if you don't have the right model you have to use (and trust) what is available.
From what I know, most of the passive manufacturers have free models available for ADS, MWO, etc. Check links below:

https://ds.murata.co.jp/software/simsurfing/en-us/index.html
https://www.johansontechnology.com/modeling-software/jtisoftr-overview.html
https://www.avx.com/SpiApps/default.asp

In real measurements (not simulation) when is about to compare Self Resonance Frequency (SRF) of different components without having the proper test jig (support), things might be complicated at high frequencies.
Take a look to the picture, what different SRF you get for the same capacitor that is placed in different positions on the layout.

 

[volker@muehlhaus]

Take a look to the picture, what different SRF you get for the same capacitor that is placed in different positions on the layout.

Agreed that orientation makes a difference. But I disagree with what is labelled here as SRF. No surprise that the dip in transmission is above the manufacturers spec - this dip is not the SRF. At SRF = series resonance frequency we have the smallest insertion loss, because L and C cancel and we have series resistance only. The high insertion loss is PRF = parallel resonance frequency.

https://www.johansontechnology.com/...srf-a-prf-for-rf-capacitors.html#.U61fnLH-stU

 

[vfone]

Yes, it is a terminology interpretation. I mentioned above Self Resonant Frequency and not Series. I think "self" covers both, series and parallel and it is more a general term.
I prefer Series and Parallel terminology because refers exactly to the resonance mode, but I am sure the author of the book from where I took the picture knows the difference. Was just an example.

 

[pusparaga]

Dear Sir,
Thank for your help and elaboration, and meaningful explanation. What about SMT RESISTORS. I have the following doubts on the SMT Resistors

(1) What are the conditions, we have to take care while selecting the SMT Resistors as like SMT Capacitors SRF(self resonance frequency)

(2) If we are working in the frequency range of L-band(1-2GHz), what points we have to give importance while selecting SMT RESISTORS other than their resistor value, tolerance, case style.

Because I am beginner for using the SMT components.
(3) Suppose I use market available PANASONIC or VISHAY or TEconnectivity resistors of 30Kohm, case style 1206, tolerance +/- 5%, these company resistors are not available in my ADS SMT components library. For equivalent to these resistors, which SMT resistors I have to choose, on what basis I have to choose the other ADS library available SMT resistors.

 

[volker@muehlhaus]

The main parasitic effects are series incuctance, and some shunt capacitance to ground.

SMD resistors are resistive sheets, and the final value is achieved during production by cutting small slots/holes with a laser. The manufacturers trim for accurate DC resistance. The cut geometry that they use will change the current flow in the resistor, and change series inductance. So different resistor types can have different RF properties, even if the DC resistance is the same.

But if you have the electrical models in your ADS library, the typical behaviour is already included the models. Then, you can just try the model and see if it works in your circuit.

 

[pusparaga]

Dear Sir,
When we connect these SMT Capacitors and SMT Resistors to the linear model or nonlinear model, their effect like SRF(self resonance frequency) effect of Capacitor at particular frequency and series inductance and shunt capacitance to ground of resistor. Will they show their effect in the simulation or will they show their effect after layout generation and component placement and measuring using network analyzer or spectrum analyzer.

 

[volker@muehlhaus]

Will they show their effect in the simulation .

Yes, these parasitic effects are included in the simulation models. That is the advantage of using the manufacturer library instead of ideal R,L,C elements.

 

[pusparaga]

Sir,
When I checked RF passive capacitors SMT Library in the my ADS2009. What I noticed is , market available vendor components such as AVX company 82 PF, 08052U820JAT2A part number is not available in the library of RF passive SMT Library AVX Company components. How to get these market available vendor component AVX SMT capacitors and how to get install to our RF passive capacitors or otherwise can we use alternative available AVX capacitors in the Library.
Similarly JOHANSON company SMT capacitors is not available in the ADS2009 library,and how to get these market available SMT Johanson capacitors and how to install these.

 

[volker@muehlhaus]

You can buy the passive component library from Modelithics.
https://www.modelithics.com/products.asp?a=view&id=1

 

[RealAEL]

You can buy the passive component library from Modelithics.
https://www.modelithics.com/products.asp?a=view&id=1

Unfortunately the Modelithics CLR Library is only compatible with ADS 2009U1 or ADS 2011 and later versions of ADS. It is not supported in ADS 2009 as the DLL version is not backwardly compatible with the compiler verison used but ADS 2009.

 

[pusparaga]

You can buy the passive component library from Modelithics.
https://www.modelithics.com/products.asp?a=view&id=1

Sir,
Thank you for your help. As you told, if we buy passive component library from modelithics, can we get all the market available SMT VENDOR components(capacitors, resistors, and inductors).
When I checked as you have shown link, some company are not available for example resistors of PANASONIC and TE CONNECTIVITY. Those are not available in the list of modelithics. Can they include SMT components as we desire companies, while buying.

 

[volker@muehlhaus]

As you told, if we buy passive component library from modelithics, can we get all the market available SMT VENDOR components(capacitors, resistors, and inductors).

No. You will get the model that they have listed.

When I checked as you have shown link, some company are not available for example resistors of PANASONIC and TE CONNECTIVITY. Those are not available in the list of modelithics. Can they include SMT components as we desire companies, while buying.

Modelithics can measure other components for you, if you are willing to pay for the work. Most users will use components where models already exist, or do their own measurements.

 

[pusparaga]

Modelithics can measure other components for you, if you are willing to pay for the work. Most users will use components where models already exist, or do their own measurements.

Sir,
I didn't understand, what you conveyed above.Please can you clear it.

If we are ready to buy CLR Modelithics library how much they will charge in terms of American Dollar. If you know approximately, can you tell.

I need the following SMT capacitors and chip SMD resistors simulation electrical model of components of ADS LIBRARY to my work, but the following capacitors and resistors electrical simulation model ADS library are not available in the CLR list of modelithics. I am really feeling anxiety and trouble, where I can get these same part number , same case style , same company. Where I will get and How I will get. Really, I don't know. I request you to guide me, where I will get, how I have to approach to get the following SMT Capacitors and Resistors. Please guide me. It would be lot of help to me.

SMT CAPACITORS are as follows

1) JohnsonCompany_0603(Casestyle)_251R14S5R6BV4T(Partnumber)_5.6PF(Capacitor Value)
2) JohnsonCaompany_0603(Casestyle)_251R14S3R3BV4T(Partnumber)_3.3PF(Capacitor Value)
3) Johnson_0603_251R14S820GV4T_82PF
4) Johnson_0805_251R15S101JV4E_100PF
5) Johnson_0805_251R15S101JV4E_100PF
6) JOHNSON_0603_251R14S5R1BV4T_5.1pF
7) JOHNSON_0603_251R14S270GV4T_27pF
8) AVX_06032U6RCAT2A_0603_6.8PF
9) AVX_06032U150GAT2A_0603_15PF
10) AVX_0603_06032U1R5BAT2A_1.5pF
11) AVX_0603_06032U100GAT2A_10pF
12) AVX_0603_06032U1R2BAT2A_1.20pF
13) AVX_0603_06032U6R8CAT2A_6.8PF
14) AVX_0603_06032U120GAT2A_12PF
15) AVX_0603_MKO3V72R4BAT2A_2.4pF
16) AVX_0603_MLO3510R1AAT2A_0.10pF
17) MURATA_0603_ERB1885C2D220JDX5D_22pF
18) MURATA_0603_ERB1885C2D680JDX5D_68pF

Chip SMT Resistors are as follows

1) PanasonicCompany_1206(CaseStyle)_ERA8AEB303V(Part Number)_30Kohm(Resistance Value)
2) Panasonic Comapny_1206(CaseStyle)_ERA8AEB2941V(Part number)_2.94Kohm(Resstacnevalue)
3) Panasonic_1206_ERA8AEB7151V_7.15KOhm
4) Panasonic_ERJ8ENF1132V_1206_11.3KRES
5) Panasonic_ERJPO8F49R9V_1206_49.9RES
6) Panasonic_ERJPO8F6040V_1206_604KRES
7) Panasonic_1206_ERA8AEB303V_30Kohm
8) Panasonic_1206_ERA8AEB7151V_7.15KOhm
9) PANASONIC_1206_ERJ8BQF3R6V_3.6R
10) PANASONIC_1206_ERJP08F24R0V_24RES
11) PANASONIC_1206_ERJP08F5762V_57.6KRES
12) PANASONIC_1206_ERJP08F6041V_6.04KRES
13) PANASONIC_1206_ERJP08F6191V_6.19KRES
14) PANASONIC_1206_ERJPO8F49R9V_49.9RES
15) VISHAY_1206_CRCW120622R1FKEA_22.1RES
16) VISHAY_1206_CRCW1206137KFKEA-137Kohm
17) VISHAY_CRCW120612ROFKEZ_1206_12RES
18) VISHAY_CRCW120630R0FKEA_1206_30RES
19) VISHAY_1206_CRCW120610R0FKEAHP_10RES
20) TEConnectivity_CRGH1206F47K_1206_47KRES
21) TECONNECTIVITY_1206_CRGH1206F75R_75RES
22) VISHAY_1206_CRCW120610R0FKEAHP_10RES

 

[volker@muehlhaus]

Modelithics have sales reps in different countries. They can best answer your questions.
https://www.modelithics.com/sales.asp