Chip packaging question

[eddieAng]

Hi,

I am on a fact finding mission at the moment, before I start a personal project.

I will like to create a circuit using off-the-shelf chips that I hope to acquire cheaply. I will like to build it on a verroboard, and solder them the old-school way. From my understanding, it is not possible to do that unless the chip in question has a certain type of packaging. What should I look out for to ensure that I can attach the chip to my board?

Thanks in advance
Ed

 

[betwixt]

Look for DIP or SIP packaging - sometimes called "through hole". The surface mount styles are far more difficult to solder on Veroboard because their pin spacing is narrower than the copper tracks and holes.

Brian.

 

[dick_freebird]

I have seen newer "vector board" products which include
lands for surface mount packages, but that's still likely to
limit your choices of components. Old DIP packaging is the
last thing anybody could agree on.

I've done a lot of projects this way and prefer the
pad-per-hole, through-hole styles of vector board and
telephone wire (solid w/ insulation easily stripped) for
the interconnects.

This board took me days to build in this style. A PCB would
probably have been more efficient overall, but I was working
on something I didn't know would turn out the first time
and reworkability sure is nice.

 

[eddieAng]

Hi,

Thank you for replying. The datasheet did not mention either DIP or SIP. It says CP-20-10. Datasheet can be found at the following link: https://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/data_sheets/AD8232.pdf. Does that the pin spacing will be a problem?

Thanks again
Ed

Look for DIP or SIP packaging - sometimes called "through hole". The surface mount styles are far more difficult to solder on Veroboard because their pin spacing is narrower than the copper tracks and holes.

Brian.

 

[betwixt]

dick_freebird, veroboard is similar to the pad matrix you show but has copper strips joining all the pads in one direction, it's very popular in Europe but I'm not sure about the US.

eddieAng - forget Veroboard for this device. You can't even solder it without special equipment. The whole IC will fit in the width of a single Veroboard track, it's only 4mm x 4mm x 0.8mm thick (just over 1/8 inch sides).

Brian.

 

[eddieAng]

Hi Brian,

Thanks for your reply. In that case, doing it on a PCB will make sense.

I am thinking of making a cardiac monitor, described in Figure 66 of the datasheet https://www.analog.com/en/specialty...ation-amplifiers/ad8232/products/product.html. According to the diagram, I will need at least 2 other components, not counting the pheripherals.

- ADucM360 (ADC and ARM processor)
- ADP150x-2.8 (Is that the voltage regulator? Can't seem to find the datasheet)

I guess I will need a UART programming cable, to program the flash memory on the ADuc. Is there an external component that I need to do it or its simply a pin?

Are there any components that I am missing?

In addition to the Keil compiler for the processor, what would be a ballpark figure to develop such a PCB?

I heard that u can make use of proprietry software to specify the layout, and submit it to the PCB manufacturer. Can you recommend any manufacturers (I hope to spend a minimal amount of money on the software).

Please advise, thanks very much indeed.
Ed

dick_freebird, veroboard is similar to the pad matrix you show but has copper strips joining all the pads in one direction, it's very popular in Europe but I'm not sure about the US.

eddieAng - forget Veroboard for this device. You can't even solder it without special equipment. The whole IC will fit in the width of a single Veroboard track, it's only 4mm x 4mm x 0.8mm thick (just over 1/8 inch sides).

Brian.

- - - Updated - - -

Hi Brian,

Thanks for your reply. In that case, doing it on a PCB will make sense.

I am thinking of making a cardiac monitor, described in Figure 66 of the datasheet http://www.analog.com/en/specialty-amplifiers/instrumentation-amplifiers/ad8232/products/product.html. According to the diagram, I will need at least 2 other components, not counting the pheripherals.

- ADucM360 (ADC and ARM processor)
- ADP150x-2.8 (Is that the voltage regulator? Can't seem to find the datasheet)

I guess I will need a UART programming cable, to program the flash memory on the ADuc. Is there an external component that I need to do it or its simply a pin?

Are there any components that I am missing?

In addition to the Keil compiler for the processor, what would be a ballpark figure to develop such a PCB?

I heard that u can make use of proprietry software to specify the layout, and submit it to the PCB manufacturer. Can you recommend any manufacturers (I hope to spend a minimal amount of money on the software).

Please advise, thanks very much indeed.
Ed

dick_freebird, veroboard is similar to the pad matrix you show but has copper strips joining all the pads in one direction, it's very popular in Europe but I'm not sure about the US.

eddieAng - forget Veroboard for this device. You can't even solder it without special equipment. The whole IC will fit in the width of a single Veroboard track, it's only 4mm x 4mm x 0.8mm thick (just over 1/8 inch sides).

Brian.

 

[betwixt]

Hi Ed.

The ADP150 is a linear 150mA regulator - you will find it's data sheet here: https://www.analog.com/en/power-management/linear-regulators/adp150/products/product.html

You can use any ADC/MCU you like, the data sheet shows an ARM procressor but as long as you can interface to the AD8232 there's no reason why you can't use a different type. You also need a display device or a serial interface if you are using a computer to monitor the output. I have never programmed ARM devices so I'm not sure what you need to do it, I would expect more than just a serial cable though.

Before embarking on this project, are you fully aware of the complications of sourcing a single IC and handling it? They are normally sold on reels of 1,500. Sorry if I sound as though I'm casting doubts on your skills but these are tiny ICs and extremely difficult to handle, they are normally mounted by machine, not by hand. You have to make solder joints no more than 0.25mm apart on tracks of similar width. You might find it easier to buy an evaluation kit which will have the IC already mounted on it.

I have several PCB packages but my preference for simple designs is Kicad, it's free and fairly easy to use on Linux and Windoze platforms.

Brian.

 

[eddieAng]

Hi Brian,

Once again, your input is much appreciated.

From the Analog website, I am able to buy the ICs in small numbers. I abandoned the idea of soldering the components myself (you are right, they are simply too small). However, I am sure that there are people who would like to prototype their designs, in part using existing components. This is what I would like to do. Specify the layout of the PCB, and outsource the job of putting together the components to a specialized third-party (possibly sending them the components I get from Analog devices).

I would like your advice (or anyone kind enough to answer) about reliable PCB manufacturers, and the cost involved in doing so to determine the feasibility of such a project.

Thank you
Ed

Hi Ed.

The ADP150 is a linear 150mA regulator - you will find it's data sheet here: https://www.analog.com/en/power-management/linear-regulators/adp150/products/product.html

You can use any ADC/MCU you like, the data sheet shows an ARM procressor but as long as you can interface to the AD8232 there's no reason why you can't use a different type. You also need a display device or a serial interface if you are using a computer to monitor the output. I have never programmed ARM devices so I'm not sure what you need to do it, I would expect more than just a serial cable though.

Before embarking on this project, are you fully aware of the complications of sourcing a single IC and handling it? They are normally sold on reels of 1,500. Sorry if I sound as though I'm casting doubts on your skills but these are tiny ICs and extremely difficult to handle, they are normally mounted by machine, not by hand. You have to make solder joints no more than 0.25mm apart on tracks of similar width. You might find it easier to buy an evaluation kit which will have the IC already mounted on it.

I have several PCB packages but my preference for simple designs is Kicad, it's free and fairly easy to use on Linux and Windoze platforms.

Brian.

 

[betwixt]

Several companies will do this but before we can make suggestions, please tell us where in the World you are. Often the cost of shipping/customs and import/export regulations make some outsourcing uneconomical or impossible.

Brian.

 

[eddieAng]

I am based in the UK.

Thanks
Ed

Several companies will do this but before we can make suggestions, please tell us where in the World you are. Often the cost of shipping/customs and import/export regulations make some outsourcing uneconomical or impossible.

Brian.

 

[betwixt]

I try to design my boards single sided then make the PCB myself but this may not be possible with your project. I've recently designed a board for use in a movie prop (I can't name it but here's a hint: Sk*fall) which had to be double sided but didn't use such small components. The design was done in Kicad and fabrication done by https://www.pcbpanel.co.uk but their web site seems to be running very slowly at the moment.

I'm not sure they will do assembly for you but they can probably recommend a company that will. I think you might find it rather expensive though because handling such small devices requires special equipment and hot air soldering.

Brian.

 

[eddieAng]

Wow, it must be great to do a PCB for THAT movie. Thanks a million, Brian, for your help! I will contact them, and I am also exploring other options- ready made evaluation boards that I can connect to my raspberry pi, which is really what I want to do.

BR
Ed

I try to design my boards single sided then make the PCB myself but this may not be possible with your project. I've recently designed a board for use in a movie prop (I can't name it but here's a hint: Sk*fall) which had to be double sided but didn't use such small components. The design was done in Kicad and fabrication done by https://www.pcbpanel.co.uk but their web site seems to be running very slowly at the moment.

I'm not sure they will do assembly for you but they can probably recommend a company that will. I think you might find it rather expensive though because handling such small devices requires special equipment and hot air soldering.

Brian.

 

[keith1200rs]

I have also used PCB Panel with good results. I also tried Multi-CB in Germany for a specialist design and the results were very good.

For manufacturing, a company local to me https://www.contract-production.co.uk/ has given good prices and produced good quality for PCBs I find it difficult to reliably build myself (0.5mm DFN).

Keith