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    Problem with Systematic offset / Bandgap circuit

    Hi to all great designers !

    In allen Holberg I find this page and I see that mathing of two transistor is a point of problem (ie. current density should be equal and I do matching NMOS to NMOS)
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I`m trying to make Bandgap ref 1V supply, now I have problem with systematic offset, which I see between Vgs(N_CLl) and VDS( N_CLr). This two voltage should be equal right?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    But in my circuit the second stage is PMOS( P_BGRl) and there is a problem with mathing right? Because I can do same current density but this two device has different threshold voltage. So I try to make current density equal but Im not sure if this is good solution.

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    Re: Problem with Systematic offset / Bandgap circuit

    Change your amplifier to OTA (differential pair loaded by current mirrors) or design it as floded cascode.


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    •   Alt20th August 2014, 12:04

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    Re: Problem with Systematic offset / Bandgap circuit

    Hi dominik,

    so in case of OTA ( symmetrical ota) can we write this equation for systematic offset solving?

    I. Vgs7=Vds8=Vgs10
    and therefore
    II, Id7/(W/L)7=Id10/(W/L)10

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    Is it correct or is there any other equation? And about folded cascode what condition should be there and how it all work?



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    Re: Problem with Systematic offset / Bandgap circuit

    When You using symetrical OTA You don't worry about matching between any OTA current mirror transistors and driving stage.
    In folded cascode case the loading current mirror on pfets (I assuming input pair made also on pfets) should be match to driving transistors.



    •   Alt20th August 2014, 21:38

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    Re: Problem with Systematic offset / Bandgap circuit

    Whenever you use an NMOS Active Load referred to ground to drive a PMOS gain stage referred to VDD you'll have a systematic offset.
    Symmetrical OTA is an option or use a 2 stage amplifier (higher DC gain -> better Vp/Vn matching)



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    Re: Problem with Systematic offset / Bandgap circuit

    Well I try it but there is still some 90mV systematic offset, so where is the mistake?
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    ( thanks culho, 2 stage amplifier isnt for me right now => stability issue)



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    Re: Problem with Systematic offset / Bandgap circuit

    I see only 0.5mV of offset. Where You have this 90mV?


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    •   Alt21st August 2014, 12:14

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    Re: Problem with Systematic offset / Bandgap circuit

    Vdio - Vout is systematic offset isn't it?

    All this stuff about systematic offset start at this picture, where my mentor told me that VGS(NM1)=511mV MINUS VDS(NM0)=339mV is systematic offset.
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    Re: Problem with Systematic offset / Bandgap circuit

    You can only get rid of systematic offsets if matched devices are operating in the same region. The VDS of the two devices are are not the same but if they are both deeply saturated in strong inversion the IDS current offset is very small. That is why you only see 0.5mV of offset at the input of your diff pair.


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    Re: Problem with Systematic offset / Bandgap circuit

    Thank you guys again, in the end I use folded cascode topology and everything is better, I like it ! :)



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