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FPGA, CPLD in Egypt ?!

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causeitso

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fpga egypt

Does anyone know where to buy either fpga , cpld or any sort of programmable logic that can run with clock frequencies 100 Mhz or more from Egypt ?

it would be best if someone already bought one of these components so he can tell
me the price also , because the price concerns me alot , after some things i
bought that are sold very cheap outside but here it costs a fortune.

really i am very disappointed in either the prices which are very high or the ways i
could find the price which requires that i must pay them a visit so they can
manipulate the price as they want.

what makes it worse is that i don't live in cairo , i live in tanta , so every time i
want something i have to travel. not that we don't have electronic shops here , but
they are close to useless.

one thing that i asked more than one of the electronic component shops here and
in cairo is a listing of at least the types of transistors they have in stock.

well they look at me as if i'm asking for something illegal and their answer is
always NOO.

this tells me one thing , there is no electronic design or it is very limited, because
the designer has to have a quick reference and a list of the available components
in hand so he can choose his components based on performance requirements and
target price.

i get even more fraustrated when i see the quality of service international
electronic manufacterers offers to the designers , their goal now is fast
prototyping,fast accurate testing and of course fast time to maket. they offer fast
component selection based on your needs , component pricing , helpful software
and hardware simulators and testers .

well, being a third world coutry isn't coming from nothing .

my words may give u the impression that i hate living in egypt , which is absolutly
true :), but after all egypt is my country and if we don't make this country
advance , who will ?!

oh i've got carried with words,

plz if u have any information on fpga or any type of programmable logic distributrs
in egypt , this will help me a lot.

thanx.
 

oscelliscope

Hey,

>> if we don't make this country advance , who will ?!

I wonder when we all will start thinking like you....



As far as the FPGA is concerned. I would recommend you to order one directly from the manufacturer.

I own a DIGILENT Spartan 3 kit (with XC3S1000 -1000k gates)... <www.digilentinc.com>

The kit is a very good one. The price is 100$ for 200k gates, or 120$ for 400k gates, or 150$ for 1000k gates. plus 35$ shipping charges were to Pakistan (i think they will ask for the same 35$ for Egypt as well)... the kit has a 50Mhz crytal on it, but you can disable it and Spartan 3 can be run on a 100 Mhz crystal as well.

finally, i had to pay 17$ for DUTY.


You should be aware, however, that digilent does NOT ship any manual or software with the kit. These will have to be downloaded from Xilinx's website.
 

fpga in egypt

in my opinion, you should buy directly from xilinx.com because the kits from xilinx.com has ISE and EDK evaluation CDs etc.

and i would recommend the Spartan 3E Starter Kit because of its resources.
 

thank u both.

i think this is the way to go.

and after seeing the high prices of electronic components here in egypt , suddenly these prices seem resonable , and this chip would enable me to do some high frequency stuff ,and what i really wanna do is a data acquisition system like a digital oscelliscope (altough i don't have the high speed a/d converter).

but if i found them in egypt within a resonably higher price i would just buy them from here so if any one from egypt could help me , it would be great.
 

Ezayak ya man, I understand what you're talking about because it is the same where I am DUBAI. I order everything via the internet. And if I ever find anything here it is 40x the real price.
 

Guide System Integrators
23 Hassan Al Shreif St., Extension of Hassan Al Ma’mon St.
8th Zone, Nasr City,
P.O Box 11371 Cairo,
Egypt
Tel: + 202 – 6719873 or +202 – 6713942 or +202- 2631632
Fax: +202 – 6719873
E-Mail: x-info@guidsi.com
Website: www.guidsi.com


i hope that helps
take care:)
 

y all that bad publicity on Egypt ? chill up man , internet works like charm .
EGYPT Rules!
 

ya egypt rules , i like egypt too u know . i like monir .........
i like people here in egypt , the nile, and i like very much the fact that we have the pyramids:D.

but when it comes to science ..

go google any technical stuff with (pages from egypt) selected.
any technical stuff ,kinds of motors like stepper or servo , FPGAs , ADCs, u figure.

and what do u get , a bunch of .edu sites all talking about projects or education of some kind involving the subject .

but on the "non-egyptian" sites and i don't mean of course arabic sites , ur search result will be a list of sellers and manufacturers , or some company or some guy with a good tutorial on the subject.

this is what i am relly looking for when searching.

from the search results i can see that we r in a learning phase , and i don't deny that college education is getting better in egypt , and that we will eventually go to a manufacturing phase g0d knows when , and i think we r in a slow progress , u can see it from the televisions and motherboards assembled here but still no real manufacturing and no real designs the design idea is already made outside.

this problem comes mainly from the lack of funding of scientific research , but as i said we will on the long/short run make products (and i don't mean assemble) that are of good quality and are cost effective which makes it of course competitive , or there will be no benefit .. because manufacturing or designing or just productivity in ur field is the real implementation of the long long road of learning.

other than that i like egypt.

Added after 5 minutes:

oh i forgot , thanx salma for ur help , i will contact this company .
 

causeitso said:
but still no real manufacturing and no real designs the design idea is already made outside.
Click to expand...

well designing in Egypt is evolving faster than u could imagine , i dont know about Tanta but in Cairo there r few really fast growing IC design houses and they r really promising and there are already existing some state of the art analog and mixed full designs made here in Egypt and as i said it is a really fast growing market in Egypt and we "Egyptian" can compete in the market, i dont say that we r great but we will be isa, anyway i just wanted u to chill up a little bit and not to talk like this about Egypt even if it is true this shouldnt be said on forign sites, pleased to meet u and welecome to the board.
regards,
a.safwat
 

u'r welcome
u should contact them and see what they offer exactly
and if it doesn't work out
just contact digilent instead
i hope u see the more clear and rosy picture of companies in Egypt
not everything is bad and dull

take care
Salma:D
 

safwatonline said:
anyway i just wanted u to chill up a little bit and not to talk like this about Egypt even if it is true this shouldnt be said on forign sites, pleased to meet u and welecome to the board.
regards,
a.safwat
Click to expand...

i don't feel quite comfortable wth tht... it is good to share the truth...

as long as it is not political or religious.. i think it is ok to giv comment


regards,
sp
 

well, having a hard time to get some component doesnt descripe Egypt , there are some merchants in electronics bussiness without any knowledge just as commerce and they dont represent the engineering community in Egypt, also i guess many poeple around the world dont find the exact parts they want it is quite normal and thats why internet bussiness is succeeding , so i dont see the need to complain about the country in like 40 lines without any deserving issue , anyway i dont have to defend Egyptian designers as they are proving themselves , but i dont think that some personal small or even large incident should give a general bad impression on my country .
regards,
a.safwat
 

i know that this doesn't represent the engineering community, there is of course some bright guys , but ...

to tell u the truth , i don't like ur talk about ( things like this shouldn't be said on foreign sites) , can we say it on local sites , yes yes .. showing our dirty laundary , are we waiting tell it is clean or what ,i don't know , i don't like that type of thinking , i don't even understand it.


what i sense in ur talk is that the problem of finding parts is minor , and it has a little effect on designers , but i think this problem is major , because lets be honest , design became fairly easy these days especially in digital systems and the implementation of programmable logic and that things become more and more integrated.

of course u can notice the progress of IT and programming in general in egypt, why?.
beacuse it is software, it is cheap and accessible and every one already owns a computer,
but hardware is another thing.

so finally can u tell me what is ur major in engineering and what are u involved in ?. so i can make a more clear picture of what u r talking about.
 

I would appreciate the egyptian engineers and designers if they can tell me the IC design houses in Egypt which they were talking about.

I myself am egyptian .. and I worked in the IC design field .. and I know that there are some few good companies doing some good jobs .. yet, not on IC level .. and if on IC level .. I would definetly have known ..

I need to see those who worked out a complete chip .. not speaking about those few guys who used to work for MEMSCap .. and tapedout something that never came out to light ..

SysDSoft is one good example, but I think they are still on the system level road .. little job done on the IC level .. and I don't think it's mature enough ..

Egypt still has no complete flow for the IC design .. we are concentrating on VHDL .. as if whomever knows VHDL is an IC designer .. on the other hand, universities keep telling students that Analog & RF is the real highest level job to be done ..


I need to hear some new stories about the IC design in Egypt .. I need someone to tell me how to professionally get a GDSII that is compared to a similar one in India .. at least give me one or two examples ..


waiting
 

well, for instance SWS(smart wireless system) they made a complete clock generation chip , i dont have very much details but they r working very good and progressing very much and i think they r growing real fast and they will soon have there own product (IP) , there is also a new IP in mentor Egypt and i think they will grow fast also and i dont know exactly the previous projects but from the current project they r moving fast too, and as u mentioned SysDsoft but i am not sure where r they now ,the thing is we have limited resources and we r not that high standard of living country but i am sure that many countries (and i mean many) dont have costy FPGA's ad CPLD's that may reach thousands or hundereds of dollars as it has a limited market not like cars or something so it is normal and not a big deal and as i said that is why something like internet purchase have evolved, about my major it is electronics ,i am just a fresh grade of ain shams my grade project was Sonet OC-48 transceiver "serdes" on UMC 0.18um , i know that i am fresh grade but from what i saw specially from SWS that there is great advance in the field and for a small new company like them to succeed and have a good stable position in few years then we r walking on the right road (they have many experts who have lots of exp. , i know a senior that was in intel and other who has the intel offer), anyway i dont want the issuse to take more than that but just a little comment about y not writing that on foreign sites do u see other men writing a whole topic about their country when they dont find a part , i dont think so , and i am pretty sure that finding a part is NOT an easy job in many many countries, so it is not normal thing to do.
regards,
a.safwat
 

Dear Safwat ..

The problem is not finding an electronic component ... I myself graduated 7 years ago and I had completely NO problem finding any component .. if you try to saerch, you will find many in-land companies connected to international ones and you can use them to get whatever u want ..

The problem is that we are not professionals .. we deal with design field as if it's HOLLYWOOD .. whenever some names are mentioned, you find yourself very happy and in love with them .. these names can be the names of the founders of Mentor, SWS .. etc. and even some seniors (like u have mentioned) who used to work abroad .. in Intel .. or wheresoever ..


The problem is that even if one company is doing fine .. do you really believe that we have an engineer for every design position in the design flow of the Integrated Circuits ?

How many engineers have you heard are called "Back-End" engineers ?
How many engineers have you heard are called "DFT" engineers ?
How many are working in the Physical Synthesis ?
How many designed a multi-million gate chip ?
How many are using ARM, MIPS or Tensilica processors ?
How many are using tools other than Mentor tools ?
How many knows Magma ?


I heard one word here in this topic saying : if we are not going to make this country an advanced one, who will ?

Let's be clear .. we are not saying anything bad about the country .. we are discussing some problems that may occur to any other country ..

We are have a blur vision about IC design these days .. we need to be more specific .. don't concentrate only on what we have .. like Mentor tools .. but we need to go further .. we need to have a graduate whom we can call a Verification Engineer .. we still don't have this graduate .. we all love to be designers .. ONLY ..


we need to discuss all these problems .. politely .. and never mind to be on public .. it's not politics ..
 

AA,
dear omara,
u seem to be very pesimestic, no country rise suddenlly everything has to take its time and its natural route to develope , no new-made company have all specific specialized engineers but many engineers can do many jobs in the IC flow, yet the work is done and done good too.
about the tools what is wrong with mentor tools , however both SysDsoft and SWS work with cadence , even my project was on cadence it is not that big deal.
i also dont see why shouldnt we be proud of having some brillliant minds from Egypt whom are considered experts in their field, someone like Dr.Emad Hegazi proved himself outside and yet he returned to Egypt to help building a good technological advance.
about verification engineers as far as i know they do exist , lets take for example mentor Egypt do u know that mentor Consulting team in Egypt is over 20 engineers and they are considered a main branch in the whole world , in mentor for instance the design team is just a small team compared to other teams , yet i dont see what is wrong in wanting to be a designer it is cool job and a good thing , finally about discussing the issue on the internet i dont say it is not good but what i said is that it is the best thing to give bad impression about the country specially for small issue like finding an electronic part which could happen anywhere.
anyway this topic has a main advantage that i met some Egyptian engineers here,so keep on and finally "EGYPT Rules :D"
regards,
a.safwat
 

Dear Safwat ..

Alhamdullah am optimistic .. but I kind see the picture clearer than freshers .. I don't mean that your words are wrong .. but I graduate more than 7 years ago and I'm in this field since then ..

Let me tell u something .. we are trying to start an IC business in Egypt since early 1990's .. like 15+ years ago .. there are some good stuff .. and some bad stuff .. the problem is that we dont learn from out mistakes .. and I mean it pretty much ..

If you ask me what's wrong, I 'll tell u ..

1- Mentor is not a design company .. and eventhough its engineers are quite brilliant, this makes it worse .. as we make good engineers and still we don't have good products ..

2- IP team and Consultancy team are not design teams .. they don't go for silicon ..

3- Can you tell me what is the synthesis tool of Mentor that is used in the industry ? .. and what companies are using it ?

4- How many companies here in Egypt knows exactly the correct IC design flow ? .. Not a single company .. I know them all ..

5- How many companies are trying to know the exact flow .. ? .. also not a single company ..
Why ? .. becuase we can't afford to have the correct flow ..
we prefer to write Matlab .. VHDL .. and nothing after that ..

6- Tell me a single company which is using Synopsys DC with its full capabilities to bridge the gap between front-end and back-end ..

7- Give me the names of the engineers who has 7+ years of engineering experience who knows how to tape out a multi-million gate chip .. even if their companies didn't ask them too ...
Out engineers are trapped in some stuff .. they don't want to go beyond ..

8- How many engineers know how to do formal verification ?

9- How many engineers know how to integrate a processor with a dsp, analog, digital baseband in one chip ?


We knew these problems and still know them .. but we don't want to change anything .. we prefer to keep saying that we are good .. we are happy getting distinction in university and working in Mentor in QA teams ..

We are quite satisfied with our experience .. even if we already had enough time to upgrade it ..

By the way .. how long does it take to build an engineering community of IC designers in a country like Egypt ? .. but professionals .. in all design tracks ?


I guess we exceeded that time at least 5 years ago ..
 

Assalamou Alaikum,

I have a view in the middle between you two.

This may hurt some of you, but definitely Egypt does NOT rule in any aspect of life, especially business and industry, or by any standard. I am sorry to say it but if you think so, you need to look at other countries that were way behind us and are now much ahead. You can even look at our own standard of life and quality of life and see how it has deteriorated badly over the years. But then I digress..

On the other hand, to assume that if you do not design a full chip, you are not a designer is very unfair. Admittedly, designing a full chip involves a ton more issues, tools and processes but on the other hand some of the designs being tackled are very complex and require very specialized skills that are very much in demand even in North America. India, with the outsourcing model, is now attracting a huge number of designs from NA and Europe and very very few of that are full chips as far I am aware.

We need to think a bit deeper. The issue is "where is the market?". If you don't have a market and a viable one, you can not afford to spend the huge capital required to develop the breadth of the team but rather you have to focus on specialized skills that maintain the demand for your team. It is all a matter of ROI (return on investment). Do you know how much it costs to spin the masks in 0.13um (not even 90nm or 65nm)? how much it costs to license one point tool, let alone all the tools for the whole chip flow?

If Egyptian companies are successful in attracting customers (which are currently not in Egypt!), they will be able to develop all of this expertise over time. What we need is business development, connections and networking with customers, and innovative ideas to have viable customers and a good chance to succeed and to continue to exist.

Another approach would be to have an Egyptian customer, meaning start up another company in Egypt that develops say a telecom or computing equipment (some kind of central office equipment or CPE or whatever) that is needed in the local or regional market and have it supplied by your IC market. However, this is a much tougher approach because it means that the equipment company needs ever more investments and poses more business risk, the chips it needs may be available from other vendors at lower cost, a larger infrastructure is needed... etc. This model won't work, in my opinion, unless there is a bigger will to make it succeed, something like a national plan, funding and protection until it is able to compete. In some countries, the military industries are that market that requires the support of an IC company and many others. Here I am digressing again...

This is, again, why a small company, trying to be a design services house and trying to sub-contract small designs (not a full chip), is a good feasible step in the current conditions... Hey, that is again the Indian model that is now threatening some western engineers of losing their jobs...

-AA
 

Abu-Abdullah said:
Assalamou Alaikum,

I have a view in the middle between you two.

This may hurt some of you, but definitely Egypt does NOT rule in any aspect of life, especially business and industry, or by any standard. I am sorry to say it but if you think so, you need to look at other countries that were way behind us and are now much ahead. You can even look at our own standard of life and quality of life and see how it has deteriorated badly over the years. But then I digress..

On the other hand, to assume that if you do not design a full chip, you are not a designer is very unfair. Admittedly, designing a full chip involves a ton more issues, tools and processes but on the other hand some of the designs being tackled are very complex and require very specialized skills that are very much in demand even in North America. India, with the outsourcing model, is now attracting a huge number of designs from NA and Europe and very very few of that are full chips as far I am aware.

We need to think a bit deeper. The issue is "where is the market?". If you don't have a market and a viable one, you can not afford to spend the huge capital required to develop the breadth of the team but rather you have to focus on specialized skills that maintain the demand for your team. It is all a matter of ROI (return on investment). Do you know how much it costs to spin the masks in 0.13um (not even 90nm or 65nm)? how much it costs to license one point tool, let alone all the tools for the whole chip flow?

If Egyptian companies are successful in attracting customers (which are currently not in Egypt!), they will be able to develop all of this expertise over time. What we need is business development, connections and networking with customers, and innovative ideas to have viable customers and a good chance to succeed and to continue to exist.

Another approach would be to have an Egyptian customer, meaning start up another company in Egypt that develops say a telecom or computing equipment (some kind of central office equipment or CPE or whatever) that is needed in the local or regional market and have it supplied by your IC market. However, this is a much tougher approach because it means that the equipment company needs ever more investments and poses more business risk, the chips it needs may be available from other vendors at lower cost, a larger infrastructure is needed... etc. This model won't work, in my opinion, unless there is a bigger will to make it succeed, something like a national plan, funding and protection until it is able to compete. In some countries, the military industries are that market that requires the support of an IC company and many others. Here I am digressing again...

This is, again, why a small company, trying to be a design services house and trying to sub-contract small designs (not a full chip), is a good feasible step in the current conditions... Hey, that is again the Indian model that is now threatening some western engineers of losing their jobs...

-AA
Click to expand...


Wa Alaikum Assalam Abu-Abdullah

Thanks for your comment though I don't agree much with you.

For Egypt, the problem we are facing is definetly managerial .. not any technical .. there is a problem about leading people to know and to do the right thing ..

From your nickname , it appears to me that you are either arab or at least Moslim .. definetly you know that Egypt is the arab leader in everything .. hence, we can't say it's way behind the countries .. and I'm not talking about the standard of living, simply because the standard of living in India and in China is close to that of Egypt .. don't you agree ??


In Egypt we have the thing that others are struggling to have .. we have minds .. but we are seeking the real management ..

I am an Egyptian .. and though all what others are saying about the Egyptian education .. I have received mine in the Egyptian Universities .. and Al-hamdullah I have directly worked in the USA west-coast design centers .. and in the Malaysian Silicon Valley .. without any education from abroad .. I guess this is a good evidence that we have the material for an industrial evolution ..

Now .. I'm back to Egypt, and I'm still not even 30 years old .. trying to participate in opening (what you called) a small design service center ...

I have a network of people in both far east and far west .. and europe ..


Again .. I insist on the management .. we need to manage people to know what should be known .. starting from Univeristy up to the company .. and Inshallah this will be the next challenge that we will succeed in ..

Wish us luck ..
 

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