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[SOLVED] Legality of use of internet sourced out-of-print application notes and data books

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MusicInclusive

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Hi,

New here - forgive a naive question.

I searched through the forums and did not see anything similar.

What is the commonly understood legal stance on the use of application notes that are not currently being published by manufacturers - either because the manufacturer no longer exists (gone out of business or have been bought out) or because they no longer manufacture the part?

Current practice is for manufacturers to publish data sheets and often application notes for free download. It is of course in their interest to do so so that their products get used effectively.

However in the case of out-of-production parts, or, where the application notes were never on the Internet in the first place but sometimes even sold as paper data books - however small or large - but which notes serve(d) the same function of dissemination of information for practical use of the parts, and, in particular for which the parts are still available even 2nd hand or from other manufacturers, there seems to be no clear answer to me at present.

Two concrete examples:

1.) I want to build something with an XR-2206 I picked up in a grab bag. I have no idea whether it's a genuine Exar part or a Chinese knock off. I suspect the former however given the vintage.

Exar no longer exists - now MaxLinear - and although they still have some Exar-sourced datasheets for parts in production at their site (with the XR logo even) they do not have the XR-2206.

Now, the datasheet I believe was published and freely available - it is still maintained at various well-known 3rd party sites - and I cannot but think that Exar / MaxLinear would not somehow withdraw a previously published and (I assume) freely available datasheet, but, in this case, what I want to use is the AR-14 application note which was published in the Exar Function Generator Databook - and I don't know if that was ever free.

Does anyone know?

It is available to download from 3rd-party sites, as is the TAN-005 application note as one can easily discern by googling, but I don't know what the legality is here. If it was ever sold, as opposed to being a free giveaway which is still legitimately free to download that might make a difference in legitimacy of using a downloaded copy.

I want to uphold all copyright law properly.

Companies normally today freely allow such downloads of their copyrighted datasheets and sometimes application notes and databooks too. The question is whether what happens when a given company considers material withdrawn or otherwise unobtainable (I'd pay for it if it were possible in that case) and then copyright would come into play as a legal issue. I doubt anyone would ever enforce it - but that's not the point; it's a question of doing what is right that I am concerned about here.

I have sent an email to MaxLinear to inquire but have not yet heard back.

2.) The National Semiconductor Linear applications handbook is another example. Clearly out of print. And, of course, now, TI own the old NS assets. TI produce their own application notes, but do not maintain a download of the NS databook. It is again available for download on the web (but I believe was indeed a for-cost item originally).

What is the understanding here? Copyright is again in play of course, but, again, it's a matter of how it's considered by the company - now TI. Is it considered freely available for all to use or not? Some of you may have original copies of this in paper form; did you have to pay for that back in the day?

Again - I have written to TI to ask them but again have not heard back.

Thanks for your patience getting this far :smile:

I'd appreciate your perspective. I have no desire whatsoever to infringe on copyright or otherwise break the law.

Kind regards

Derek Jones
 

Don't overthink it. Nobody cares about your purity when
the subject is out-of-print materials that you're only
reading, that were published freely originally.

Copyright pertains to selling. Are you selling these stale
found-on-'net files? Not according to the recitation.

Fair use, if you are going to incorporate content then
you just need to provide a proper citation.

Your lack of response from TI probably says it all -
nobody cares. Join them.
 
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    asdf44

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Dear Dick,

Thank you for taking the time to respond. A couple of thoughts...

Don't overthink it. Nobody cares about your purity when
the subject is out-of-print materials that you're only
reading, that were published freely originally.

I am an electronic engineer by degree, a Linux and UNIX administrator and engineer and a software engineer, a musician and a publisher. In each of these fields copyright, licenses, patents and trademarks are extremely important both legally and morally as it is vital that proper integrity be maintained in any field not only for commerce and accountability but also personally with respect to conscience.

In running my own business I took a course in "the legal aspects of the music industry". A substantial portion of that focused on copyrights - and as you are no doubt aware that is a very hot topic in the music industry.

Part of my role in my own business may involve me working as an electronic designer however and the exact same principles apply there - which is why I am asking about that aspect :smile:, but, to focus the thought from the music arena by way of comparison: just as it is commonly illegal to download music from sites (even "old" music) if one is not paying for it - i.e. to make a copy - even when one is not selling it or otherwise redistributing it unless that is otherwise allowed, so it goes to the point of my question about downloading copies of electronic component application notes and data books. (And the same is true of sheet music too).

You said: ...

Copyright pertains to selling.

... and while it is true that copying and selling things is covered by copyright, is not the whole story. It pertains to the right of copying - a document in its entirety first and foremost (setting aside study and fair use for the moment), and that's what's in view here in my thinking.

Copyright also does not mean that one is always unable to copy something. With permission one may be able to do so. There seems to be implicit permission in the availability of datasheets and some application notes by companies currently as I mentioned in my OP. It's prior application notes and data books that I'm asking about - especially those that may have been formerly sold - even if now not in print or otherwise available commonly.

To take an example of explicitly granted permission, I recently picked up a copy of the ARRL handbook which came with a CD of the contents. The licensing permitted one installation to be made. Otherwise, installed files had to be removed before being installed elsewhere. Onerous if one is moving between systems frequently. I requested of the ARRL copyright department whether I could replicate it on a personal network where the machines were only accessed by me and they agreed and were glad that I had asked. I have that permission from them in writing (as it pertains to me and my use case). This had nothing to do with selling anything; the license required permission where other than a single install - copy - was to be made.

This is important therefore beyond selling anything - and not to do with incorporation of designs, which while it may involve copyright may have more to do with patents.

Your lack of response from TI probably says it all -
nobody cares. Join them.

I only asked them and MaxLinear at the tail end of the week :smile: - if I get a response that I can copy (!) then I'll update the thread here too. Having said that, it did take TI a while to get back to me about another issue a while back (and then not all that clearly): whether one could or could not use ROM programs for the TI-58 that were now published on the web in multiple places, noting that someone had obtained permission to publish the manuals for those from TI on the web. Similar kind of issue.

Guess we'll wait and see!

Kind regards

Derek Jones.
 

As the XR-2206 is out of production - at least by the original owners of the IP associated, I would expect you can do/print anything to do with it without causing upset to the original creating parties - or any one else for that matter - any patent on it expired years ago - there may be copy-wright associated with some designs using it - so if you copy those at least put in a credit ...
 

Well well...

I interestingly found this page just now:

https://www.rfcafe.com/miscellany/factoids/Huge-Resource-Vintage-Databooks-Textbooks.htm

at which is mentioned the following:

"... Arthur Missira ... on a mission to make as many such resources available to the public at no charge (more than 1,500 volumes to date). Mr. Missira wrote ... recently ... saying he has been scanning and uploading reams and reams of data book pages and technical text books onto the Archive.org website. In order to avoid copyright issues, he has either received permission to replicate the material or relied on copyright dated prior to 1978 having expired. "

(Mr. Missira's handle at archive.org appears to be artmisa in case you want to check anything out there).

That would seem to be a positive assertion of goodwill and permission granted on the part of the companies involved.

I am not clear that the pre-1978 expiration issue is entirely correct*** but the "receiving permission" piece covers both of the items I originally inquired about as they are both post 1978.

Kind regards

Derek Jones.


*** See here: https://copyright.cornell.edu/publicdomain where there is a useful table.

In summary the relevant pieces in the USA are:

Works published 1924 to 1963 with no renewal are public domain (as are works without a (C) Copyright notice in that period).

Works published 1964-1977 may still be copyright for 95 years after publication if they were published with copyright notice whether they expired and were renewed or not, and so that's only going to be covered in this case if Mr. M obtained permission for those works too. One can assume he did, but to be safe one would need to verify that with him.

After 1978 no renewal is required (it's 95 years now anyway by default for a corporate publication). However the period 1978-1989 is a gray area and would require individual research per title - depends on whether a work was retroactively registered within 5 years even if not originally published with (C) notice. Most works published in that period would still be copyright now.

So, beyond 1978 at least, if permission was obtained then Mr. M's archival work would appear to be fine.

But - I am not a lawyer.
 

Laws are interpreted by the courts: not by you and me. Lawyers can advise but their advice can be challenged.

If you believe that your intended use is not commercial and it comes under fair use, then I believe you are on strong ground.

But then all laws are matters of interpretation and judges can disagree.

Electronic parts application notes were published in the hope that they will be useful and manufacturers wanted wide dissemination of the information for free but with copyright.

They were essentially guides for building blocks for complex machines and applications. Read the notice on the last page and you will understand.

I do not believe that they intend to harass any individual for using materials that were distributed free in the hope that they will be used widely.

But then I am not a lawyer either.
 

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