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    readback the firmware Cyclone IV

    Dear my friends,

    I have a EP4C10 FPGA (Cyclone IV). It is open (no lock bit set). I want to readback the firmware but i can not use examine features. Can anybody help me?


    THX

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    Re: readback the firmware Cyclone IV

    The configuration has to be readback from the configuration device, not the FPGA.



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    Re: readback the firmware Cyclone IV

    With AS port?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by FvM View Post
    The configuration has to be readback from the configuration device, not the FPGA.

    There is a 2Mbit SPI Serial Flash (SST25VF020B) and a EPCQ16N chip on board. Are they configuration devices?



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    Re: readback the firmware Cyclone IV

    Hi,

    did you try to use an internet search before you ask?

    To make it short: Yes, the SPI serial flash is the configuration device.


    Klaus
    Please don´t contact me via PM, because there is no time to respond to them. No friend requests. Thank you.



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    Re: readback the firmware Cyclone IV

    I would expect EPCQ16 used as configuration device. You want to check if it's connected to the FPGA respectively.

    Setup the configuration memory as attached AS flash in programmer and performe examine to readback the configuration as *.jic file.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	single.PNG 
Views:	8 
Size:	13.8 KB 
ID:	156142



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    Re: readback the firmware Cyclone IV

    Hi,

    Sorry for my too fast answer.
    In our systems we use the SST25VF device as configuration device.

    But now I have to agree with FvM that for your FPGA the EPCQ16 may be the configuration device.


    Klaus
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    Re: readback the firmware Cyclone IV

    Quote Originally Posted by FvM View Post
    I would expect EPCQ16 used as configuration device. You want to check if it's connected to the FPGA respectively.

    Setup the configuration memory as attached AS flash in programmer and performe examine to readback the configuration as *.jic file.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	single.PNG 
Views:	8 
Size:	13.8 KB 
ID:	156142
    May be describe in more detail? I guess the FPGA should have a specifiec core for this operation. Am i true?



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    Re: readback the firmware Cyclone IV

    The "specific core" (factory default serial flashloader) is selected automatically by the programmer. Just try, or review the documentation.

    The steps are

    In the blank programmer window perform "Add Device"

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	seldev.PNG 
Views:	2 
Size:	32.7 KB 
ID:	156178

    Right click on the "<none> EP4C10" line in the upper window and perform "attach flash devive"

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	attach1.PNG 
Views:	1 
Size:	17.6 KB 
ID:	156179

    Select the appropriate EOCQxx device

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	attachflash.PNG 
Views:	2 
Size:	27.6 KB 
ID:	156180

    Check "Examine" in the EPCQxx line

    Click Start



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    Re: readback the firmware Cyclone IV

    Quote Originally Posted by FvM View Post
    The "specific core" (factory default serial flashloader) is selected automatically by the programmer. Just try, or review the documentation.


    Click Start
    Thank you for your time and attenuation.
    Which Documentation do you mean?



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    Re: readback the firmware Cyclone IV

    Quartus software manual, Quartus online help.



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    Re: readback the firmware Cyclone IV

    I'm curious, why would you need to readback the bitfile? Surely if it's your device, you have the bitfile that was used.



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    Re: readback the firmware Cyclone IV

    I have an ABB ZINT-592 board. There is an Altera cyclone IV FPGA on it. There is also a EPCQ16 on this board. We have read the FPGA program from this board. But we cant re-program the FPGA with same method. Can anybody help me?

    https://forum-controlsystems.abb.com...FISER3AXD5.pdf



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    Re: readback the firmware Cyclone IV

    "Can't reprogram" means what exactly?



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    Re: readback the firmware Cyclone IV

    Quote Originally Posted by FvM View Post
    "Can't reprogram" means what exactly?
    It seems to programming is done correctly. But the circuit does not work

    May be after programming i should do anything else??!!!



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    Re: readback the firmware Cyclone IV

    You should give us some information what you are trying to achieve. If you are copying a board, may be it uses additional configuration data or even copy protection means.



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    Re: readback the firmware Cyclone IV

    Quote Originally Posted by FvM View Post
    You should give us some information what you are trying to achieve. If you are copying a board, may be it uses additional configuration data or even copy protection means.
    I have a damaged ZINT-592 board. I want only to reprogram the FPGA and after that repair it.



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    Re: readback the firmware Cyclone IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Zerox100 View Post
    I have a damaged ZINT-592 board. I want only to reprogram the FPGA and after that repair it.
    How is reprogramming the Cyclone IV FPGA going to fix the board? The Cyclone IV is SRAM based and loses it's configuration when powered off. If the FPGA was damaged then just replace the FPGA. Unless they used some sort of "DNA" ID inside the Cyclone IV that prevents configuration of a different FPGA device with the configuration file programmed in the EPCS then it should work after the replacement.

    If the EPCS programming device is damaged then there won't be any reliable way to recover the Cyclone IV programming file.

    So what is damaged? Maybe you are making the board worse by trying to "reprogram" the Cyclone IV. For all we can tell you might have "bricked" the board.



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    Re: readback the firmware Cyclone IV

    Quote Originally Posted by ads-ee View Post
    How is reprogramming the Cyclone IV FPGA going to fix the board? The Cyclone IV is SRAM based and loses it's configuration when powered off. If the FPGA was damaged then just replace the FPGA. Unless they used some sort of "DNA" ID inside the Cyclone IV that prevents configuration of a different FPGA device with the configuration file programmed in the EPCS then it should work after the replacement.

    If the EPCS programming device is damaged then there won't be any reliable way to recover the Cyclone IV programming file.

    So what is damaged? Maybe you are making the board worse by trying to "reprogram" the Cyclone IV. For all we can tell you might have "bricked" the board.


    We dont know exactly. We have checked all the part. every thing is ok but the board is notoperational. We reprogram the EPCS. But the FPGA does not work. Next to the EPCS. There is FLASH IC. May be there is some lock mechanisms on the flash?



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    Re: readback the firmware Cyclone IV

    I'm not sure you can use the Intel tools to read the entire EPCS data from device to reprogram another EPCS device or the same device. It's been a long time since I used Altera/Intel but I'm pretty sure that the tools won't allow you to clone an EPCS. AFAIK you can do this with third party programmers as the EPCS is actually a commodity SPI type flash device with some voltage and timing differences.

    If a company is worried about others cloning their product, then they likely would take precautions with using device dna and other methods to ensure the product's FPGA bitstream can't be cloned onto another board. If that was done you've probably already "bricked" the board.

    To determine the FPGA was originally at fault:
    1) Did you first make sure the FPGA had power and the power was within the required voltage tolerance?
    2) Did you check that any clocks that were going to the FPGA were still active?
    3) Did you check that any reset was correctly being removed?
    4) Did you verify commands/signals were reaching the FPGA properly
    5) Did you verify that the FPGA was not producing any useful outputs (e.g. all the pins in Hi-Z or Gnd)

    If you don't have at least a schematic or knowledge of the pinout of the FPGA design implemented on the board then you probably couldn't reliably do 2 through 4. Which begs the question, how certain were you that the problem was actually the FPGA?

    You should have first tried to contact the board manufacturer and seen if you could get the board RMA'd and repaired than attempt this yourself without full knowledge of the inner workings of the design. Now that you've "tampered" with the board, you might have to eat the cost of buying another one, since RMA'ing the tampered board will likely result in the board being returned to you without being fixed.



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    Re: readback the firmware Cyclone IV

    I'm pretty sure that the tools won't allow you to clone an EPCS.
    Why? They are copying the complete EPCS content to the *.jic file.



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