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  1. #1
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    Resistance Flicker Noise Question

    Dear Friends:

    I'm studying resistance flicker noise recently, in order to reduce the resistance flicker noise,
    I designed a testbench(schematic and its timming as the figure below) and run noise & pnoise simulation.
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	154832 Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	154833

    in GLOBALFOUNDRIES process, resistance filcker noise reduction is obvious, Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	154834
    however in XFAB process, resistance filcker noise reduction almost unchanged.Click image for larger version. 

Name:	XFAB.JPG 
Views:	11 
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ID:	154835

    Why there results are different? Does anybody can help me to clarify this question?
    Thanks and have a good day.

    lmgrd

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    Re: Resistance Flicker Noise Question

    Does your resistor model truely include colored noise ?
    Show me resistor models.



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    Re: Resistance Flicker Noise Question

    I'm also surprised why a resistor would have flicker noise. I would expect thermal noise only.



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    Re: Resistance Flicker Noise Question

    Quote Originally Posted by volker@muehlhaus View Post
    I'm also surprised why a resistor would have flicker noise.
    I would expect thermal noise only.
    Resistors in Integrated Circuit show thermal, shot and fricker noise.
    Resistor model of Cadence Spectre have ability to generate thermal, shot and fricker noise.
    This is also true for Synopsys HSPICE.


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    Re: Resistance Flicker Noise Question

    Quote Originally Posted by pancho_hideboo View Post
    Resistors in Integrated Circuit show thermal, shot and fricker noise.
    So that's different from "normal" resistors? In our seminar on RF noise, we learned that resistors (linear and passive) show purely thermal noise. What's special about integrated resistors?



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    Re: Resistance Flicker Noise Question

    Quote Originally Posted by volker@muehlhaus View Post
    So that's different from "normal" resistors?
    It is nominal resistor.
    Polisilicon resistor which is linear.

    Quote Originally Posted by volker@muehlhaus View Post
    In our seminar on RF noise,
    we learned that resistors (linear and passive) show purely thermal noise.
    Even carbon resistor shows fricker noise.

    Attached is a excerption from famous standard text book, https://www.amazon.com/Analysis-Desi.../dp/0470245999.
    Last edited by pancho_hideboo; 7th August 2019 at 18:47.


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    Re: Resistance Flicker Noise Question

    Interesting, thank you!



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    Re: Resistance Flicker Noise Question

    GLOBALFOUNDRIES resistor modelClick image for larger version. 

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ID:	154856

    XFAB resistor model Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	154857

    There simulation are different, I wonder which one is correct, thank you very much.



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    Re: Resistance Flicker Noise Question

    Quote Originally Posted by lmgrd View Post
    There simulation are different,
    I wonder which one is correct,
    Show me noise contribution table.



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    Re: Resistance Flicker Noise Question

    FYI:

    GLOBALFOUNDRIES noise simulation summary: Click image for larger version. 

Name:	GLOBALFOUNDRIES_noise_summary.JPG 
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ID:	154860
    GLOBALFOUNDRIES pnoise simulation summary: Click image for larger version. 

Name:	GLOBALFOUNDRIES_pnoise_summary.JPG 
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ID:	154861
    XFAB noise simulation summary: Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	154862
    XFAB pnoise simulation summary: Click image for larger version. 

Name:	XFAB_pnoise_summary.JPG 
Views:	4 
Size:	85.1 KB 
ID:	154863

    Thanks



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    Re: Resistance Flicker Noise Question

    res_flicker_noise() describes only noise.

    Show me both resistor content and res_flicker_noise() as text not image.

    Description of res_flicker_noise() is not appropriate.



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    Re: Resistance Flicker Noise Question

    sorry, the models are on the server and l can't copy. could you please give me a way to solve this problem? thanks.



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    Re: Resistance Flicker Noise Question

    Hi,

    As already said: don't upload screenshots (pictures) of text.

    sorry, the models are on the server and l can't copy. could you please give me a way to solve this problem? thanks.
    Makes no sense.
    If you are able to open the file in an text editor (which seems to be the case), then simply mark the text, copy the text....and paste it into your post. Don't forget to use code formatting tags.

    Klaus
    Please don´t contact me via PM, because there is no time to respond to them. No friend requests. Thank you.



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    Re: Resistance Flicker Noise Question

    Quote Originally Posted by lmgrd View Post
    sorry, the models are on the server and l can't copy. could you please give me a way to solve this problem? thanks.
    Simply I will correct your verilog-a code.
    However I can not edit it since it is image.
    I don’ t want to input code as text from image.



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    Re: Resistance Flicker Noise Question

    Sorry, I just got the "text models" from the administrator.

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    //////////////////GLOBALFOUNDRIES MODEL////////////////////
    module res_flicker_noise(p, n);
    inout p, n;
    electrical p, n;
    parameter real rmain=1e3;
    parameter real l=0;
    parameter real w=0;
    parameter real dw=0;
    parameter real dl=0;
    parameter real rsh0=0;
    //parameter real (* integer inherited_mfactor; *) m = 1;
    //flicker noise parameters
    parameter real kf=2.62e-26;
    parameter real af=2;
    parameter real lf=1;
    parameter real wf=1;
    parameter real ef=1;
    parameter real m=1;
     
    real r_l, r_w;
     
    real i_r;
     
    real geo;
    analog begin
     
    r_l=l-2*dl;
    r_w=w-2*dw;
     
    // added by Ramkumar
    //Weff = w - 2*etch;
    //Leff = l - 2*etchl;
    //geo = pow(Weff, weexp) * pow(Leff, leexp) * pow(w, wdexp) *pow(l, ldexp);
    // end
     
    i_r=V(p,n)/rmain;
     
    geo = pow(r_w, wf) * pow(r_l, lf) * m;
     
    I(p, n) <+ flicker_noise(kf*pow(abs(i_r), af)/geo ,ef, "flicker");
    end 
    endmodule
    ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


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    //////////////////////////XFAB MODEL //////////////////////////////
    subckt rp1 (n1 n2 nb)
    parameters l=10e-6 w=10e-6 pm=-1 par1=1
    + wcd_AR=0
    + pmc=(max(1,1+int((w-8.000e-07)/8.000e-07)))
    + pmi=((pm>=0)?((pm==0)?1000:pm):pmc)
    + rsh=4.500e+01
    + r0=(rsh*l/w)
    + tc1r=7.200e-04
    + tc2r=5.500e-07
    g100 (0 100) bsource i=(((v(n1,nb)+v(n2,nb))/2)/1.000e+03)
    r100 (0 100) resistor r=1.000e+03 tc1=0.000e+00 tc2=0.000e+00 isnoisy=no
    e101 (101 0) bsource v=(1.000e-04*v(100)*(1+0.000e+00/(0.000e+00+w)))
    r101 (101 0) resistor r=1.000e+03 isnoisy=no
    r11 (n1 n3) rctp1 m=pmi
    r12 (n3 n4) rsilp1 l=4.000e-07 w=w
    r13 (n4 na) rsbp1 l=1.000e-06 w=w
    r1 (na nc) rp1mod r=(r0*(1+v(101))/2)
    + l=(l/2) w=w
    r2 (nc nd) rp1mod r=(r0*(1+v(101))/2)
    + l=(l/2) w=w
    model rp1mod resistor
    + tc1=tc1r                     tc2=tc2r
    + af=1.965e+00                 kf=3.682e-23
    + fexp=8.823e-01               wdexp=1.000e+00
    + ldexp=1.000e+00
    r23 (nd n8) rsbp1 l=1.000e-06 w=w
    r22 (n8 n9) rsilp1 l=4.000e-07 w=w
    r21 (n9 n2) rctp1 m=pmi
    c1a (na nb) cp1suba w=w l=(l*(1-0.5*(1+tanh(l/200/w)))/2)
    c2a (nc nb) cp1suba w=w l=(l*(1+tanh(l/200/w))/2)
    c3a (nd nb) cp1suba w=w l=(l*(1-0.5*(1+tanh(l/200/w)))/2)
    c1p (na nb) cp1subp w=1e-9 l=(l*(1-0.5*(1+tanh(l/200/w)))/2)
    c2p (nc nb) cp1subp w=1e-9 l=(l*(1+tanh(l/200/w))/2)
    c3p (nd nb) cp1subp w=1e-9 l=(l*(1-0.5*(1+tanh(l/200/w)))/2)
    ends rp1
    //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    thank you very much!

    lmgrd
    Last edited by BradtheRad; 12th August 2019 at 03:17. Reason: Put code in formatted window



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    Re: Resistance Flicker Noise Question

    No.
    Show me resistor of Globalfoundaries.


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    Re: Resistance Flicker Noise Question

    GLOBALFOUNDRIES res model

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    ahdl_include "res.va"  //res.va is on #15
    rt1 (1 11) ppolyf_u_1k_t l=1u w=r_w trise=dtemp
    c1  (1 3)  fox_sub    l=r_l/2   w=r_w trise=dtemp
    //  body
    rb (11 21) res_va
    + l=r_length
    + w=r_width
    + rsh0=r_rsh0
    + dw=r_dw
    + dl=r_dl
    + vc1=r_vc1
    + vc2=r_vc2
    + tc1=r_tc1
    + tc2=r_tc2
    + tnom=r_tnom
    + dtemp=dtemp
    + af=1.878
    + kf=8.68e-23
    // terminal 2
    rt2 (21 2) ppolyf_u_1k_t l=1u w=r_w trise=dtemp
    c2  (2 3)  fox_sub    l=r_l/2   w=r_w trise=dtemp
    //-------------------
    ends ppolyf_u_1k



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  18. #18
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    Re: Resistance Flicker Noise Question

    No.
    There is no definition of res_va and ppolyf_u_1k_t.
    And res_flicker_noise is not used anywhere.

    Show me things correctly.



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    Re: Resistance Flicker Noise Question

    Code dot - [expand]
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    subckt rppo1rpo_dis ( n1 n2 body ) 
    parameters lr=1u wr=1u factor=1 multi=1 mismatchflag=mismatchflag_disres 
    + geo_fac=1 / sqrt(multi * lr * factor * wr * factor * 1e12) factmis=1.817689e-02 
    + * geo_fac * par_res_m * mismatchflag rsh=r_rppo1rpo_dis rendsh=2 * rend_rppo1rpo_dis 
    ...
    ...
    ...
    rend1 ( n1 1 ) resistor r=max(min(rendo / 2 * (1 + 1 / (1 + jc1end_r * v(n1,1) * 
    + v(n1,1))),rendo * 1.5),rendo / 2)
    r1 ( 1 2 ) resistor r=max(min(ro / 2 * (3 - 1 / (1 + jc1_r * v(1,2) * v(1,2))),ro 
    + * 1.5),ro / 2)
    r2 ( 2 3 ) resistor r=max(min(ro / 2 * (3 - 1 / (1 + jc1_r * v(2,3) * v(2,3))),ro 
    + * 1.5),ro / 2)
    r3 ( 3 4 ) resistor r=max(min(ro / 2 * (3 - 1 / (1 + jc1_r * v(3,4) * v(3,4))),ro 
    + * 1.5),ro / 2)
    r4 ( 4 5 ) resistor r=max(min(ro / 2 * (3 - 1 / (1 + jc1_r * v(4,5) * v(4,5))),ro 
    + * 1.5),ro / 2)
    rend2 ( 5 n2 ) resistor r=max(min(rendo / 2 * (1 + 1 / (1 + jc1end_r * v(5,n2) * 
    + v(5,n2))),rendo * 1.5),rendo / 2)
    c1 ( body 1 ) capacitor c= multi*(Ca*((wr*factor+0.03u)*lr*factor/5.0)*1e12+2*Cf*lr*factor/5.0*1e6) 
    +bv_max=100*0.9
    c2 ( body 2 ) capacitor c= multi*(Ca*((wr*factor+0.03u)*lr*factor/5.0)*1e12+2*Cf*lr*factor/5.0*1e6) 
    +bv_max=100*0.9
    c3 ( body 3 ) capacitor c= multi*(Ca*((wr*factor+0.03u)*lr*factor/5.0)*1e12+2*Cf*lr*factor/5.0*1e6) 
    +bv_max=100*0.9
    c4 ( body 4 ) capacitor c= multi*(Ca*((wr*factor+0.03u)*lr*factor/5.0)*1e12+2*Cf*lr*factor/5.0*1e6) 
    +bv_max=100*0.9
    c5 ( body 5 ) capacitor c= multi*(Ca*((wr*factor+0.03u)*lr*factor/5.0)*1e12+2*Cf*lr*factor/5.0*1e6) 
    +bv_max=100*0.9
    c_soa ( n1 n2 ) capacitor c=1e-60 bv_max=j_max*wr*factor*(rend1_ov+r1_ov+r2_ov+r3_ov+r4_ov+rend2_ov)
     
    I_flicker_noise (n1 n2) res_flicker_noise   //res_flicker_noise is on #15
    + rmain=4*ro
    + m=multi 
    + l=lr
    + w=wr
    + dw=0
    + dl=0
    + af=1.79 
    + kf=2.4E-23
     
    ends rppo1rpo_dis
    Last edited by BradtheRad; 14th August 2019 at 06:58. Reason: Put code in formatted window



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    Re: Resistance Flicker Noise Question

    Quote Originally Posted by pancho_hideboo View Post
    No.
    There is no definition of res_va and ppolyf_u_1k_t.
    And res_flicker_noise is not used anywhere.

    Show me things correctly.
    Hi,


    In Veriloga, resistor flicker noise is modeled with a noisy current source: "I(p, n) <+ flicker_noise(kf*pow(abs(i_r), af)/geo ,ef, "flicker")";

    In spectre, resistor flicker noise is modeled by parameter AF,EF....

    I think two methods should be agreed with each other, but apparently the simulation result is different.

    So, which is correct or agree with physic?

    best regard,
    Qingshan



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