+ Post New Thread
Results 1 to 10 of 10

15th March 2019, 17:23 #1
 Join Date
 Nov 2014
 Posts
 71
 Helped
 1 / 1
 Points
 1,097
 Level
 7
OpAmp Shunt Resistor
Hi guys,
i have 3 circuits for measurement Voltage, Current and Temperature. I am using the YHDC HV25 for voltage, YHDC HAX25 for current and a PT100 for temperature measurement. I am on the prototyping phase and from the Proteus simulation i see good result on the voltage and current measurement but not at the PT100's. The circuit logic is the same. Anyone has any idea of circuit improvement? I am using AD817 as difference opamp. Can an instrumentation opamp give better performance?
Note that i want my outputs to be centered at 2.5V, to drive them to an ADC
1)Voltage 2)Current 3)Temperature
Last edited by VirusX2; 15th March 2019 at 17:32.

15th March 2019, 17:53 #2
 Join Date
 Jan 2008
 Location
 Bochum, Germany
 Posts
 44,024
 Helped
 13394 / 13394
 Points
 252,756
 Level
 100
Re: OpAmp Shunt Resistor
The Pt100 current source should refer to a precision reference or the ADC reference (ratiometric measurement) but not the 15V supply. It's usually unwanted to have a trimmer potentiometer because it introduces additional drift. The simple difference amplifier has too low input impedance, use an instrumentation amplifier circuit.
1 members found this post helpful.

Advertisment

15th March 2019, 17:58 #3
Awards:
 Join Date
 Apr 2014
 Posts
 14,484
 Helped
 3296 / 3296
 Points
 70,834
 Level
 64
Re: OpAmp Shunt Resistor
Hi,
in all cases:
* you are relatively high ohmic. The resistors generate noise. And additionally this makes the whole system prone against introduced noise. I see no problem in reducing 100k > 10k
* there are no filters. Use low pass filters to suppress high frequency noise and to suppress aliasing frequencies in case you use an ADC.
* not related to performance: There is no ESD protectioin and there are no EMC filters
***
PT100 circuit.
* All the PT100 nodes are relatively high ohmic. In case this is a PT100 with some cable you need to avoid introduced noise.
> show the inner PTC circuit. (is it just one PTC with kelvin connetion.. without any other resistor?)
If cable: IŽd use a shielded cable
Klaus
Added: after I read FvMs post:
IŽd try to lower the PT100 "source" nodes impedances. This also lowers the sense node impedance.
But I agree that increasing the difference amplifiier (INA) input impedance will improve accuracy. (But neither noise nor precision)Please donŽt contact me via PM, because there is no time to respond to them. No friend requests. Thank you.
1 members found this post helpful.

15th March 2019, 18:16 #4
 Join Date
 Nov 2014
 Posts
 71
 Helped
 1 / 1
 Points
 1,097
 Level
 7
Re: OpAmp Shunt Resistor
Thanks, for the answer.
I thought it was the low input impedance of AD817 (300kΩ), so i tested an AD621 with better results for the PT100 measurement. But why on the other two circuits the AD817 gives accurate results and not on the PT100? Cause the transducers have a precision current output?
Would you suggest me to change the AD817 also for the other two circuits?
   Updated   
It's a 3wire PT100 like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RTDPt100T...C/302454638634
The aim of the system is to measure transient voltages and currents on electric motor, but the transient can be on an unknow frequency, except of the base 50Hz of the supply, so i decided not to use filter. Is this a big mistake?

Advertisment

15th March 2019, 18:37 #5
Awards:
 Join Date
 Apr 2014
 Posts
 14,484
 Helped
 3296 / 3296
 Points
 70,834
 Level
 64
Re: OpAmp Shunt Resistor
Hi,
If ADC: What sampling rate?
i decided not to use filter. Is this a big mistake?
Even transients have a range of frequency. What upper frequency are you interested in?
Maybe the voltage and current transducers are the frequency limiting devices.
Then IŽd adjust the filters to them.
***
If you want high speed, then this also calls for lower ohmic resistors at the amplifiers (V and I), else any stray capacitance will have bigger influence on the signal.
Klaus
Added:
Do a search for standard RTD circuits.
In my eyes the best is ratiometric with ADC_VREF as FvM already mentioned. Or dual constant current source (derived from ADC_VREF) with wiring resitance compensation.
Depends on your need according accuracy and precision.Please donŽt contact me via PM, because there is no time to respond to them. No friend requests. Thank you.
1 members found this post helpful.

15th March 2019, 19:02 #6
 Join Date
 Nov 2014
 Posts
 71
 Helped
 1 / 1
 Points
 1,097
 Level
 7

15th March 2019, 19:32 #7
Awards:
 Join Date
 Apr 2014
 Posts
 14,484
 Helped
 3296 / 3296
 Points
 70,834
 Level
 64
Re: OpAmp Shunt Resistor
Hi,
I want a maximum sampling rate of 5 ksps for voltage and 5 ksps for current.
With 5ksps.. IŽd definitely use an appropriate low pass filter.
Read about nyquist theorem.
When I hear "transients" then I think about narrow peaks with a timing of less than 10us, maybe less than 10ns...
As said: only you know the requirements...
Hint:
Just to give you a "picture": think about the transient as a triangle pulse with constant risetime and constant fall time.
I recomend to use paper and pencil. Draw a chart with X = time, and Y = volts (amperes)
Draw a little vertical line every 200us (5kHz) just to mark the sampling events.
If you have use a tranparent foil and put it over the timing chart.
Now draw your "transient" signal onto the foil.
Focus on the points where the sampling event meets the transient signal curve. This is what your software will see. Only the points ,not the line inbetween.
Now slowly shift the transient signal (foil) to the right with respect to the sampling events. See how the poins change.
If it was my application .. and I just wanted to see the peak of the transients, but with a 5kHz sampling rate, then IŽd use some "peak detector". In simplest case a capacitor charged via a diode.. and slowly discharged by a resistor.
All this can simply be simulated with excel..
On the PT100 there is no sense of that high speed cause the PT100 itself is has a much slower response.
Also here applies nyquist.
Especially with wired sensors there is a good chance that mains frequency is introduced. 50Hz or 60Hz.. it will cause your temperature reading to fluctuate (randomly)...but you know that the temperature will not change that fast. Thus suppress the 50Hz, focus on the expected teperature change rate and get more stable and reliable readings.
KlausPlease donŽt contact me via PM, because there is no time to respond to them. No friend requests. Thank you.
1 members found this post helpful.

16th March 2019, 10:29 #8
 Join Date
 Jan 2008
 Location
 Bochum, Germany
 Posts
 44,024
 Helped
 13394 / 13394
 Points
 252,756
 Level
 100
Re: OpAmp Shunt Resistor
It's a 3wire PT100 like this

Advertisment

16th March 2019, 18:42 #9
 Join Date
 Nov 2014
 Posts
 71
 Helped
 1 / 1
 Points
 1,097
 Level
 7
Re: OpAmp Shunt Resistor

16th March 2019, 19:27 #10
 Join Date
 Jan 2008
 Location
 Bochum, Germany
 Posts
 44,024
 Helped
 13394 / 13394
 Points
 252,756
 Level
 100
Re: OpAmp Shunt Resistor
I compensate the cable resistance in software calculations.
Ratiometric means to use the same reference for current source and ADC. Voltatge divider is the most simple version, but it's a 2wire circuit.
+ Post New Thread
Please login