+ Post New Thread
Results 1 to 16 of 16

22nd February 2019, 19:53 #1
 Join Date
 Jan 2009
 Location
 Istanbul , Turkey
 Posts
 196
 Helped
 1 / 1
 Points
 2,883
 Level
 12
how to match calculated and measured current of a brush DC motor ?
hello dear forum,
I have a full bridge driving a 24 V DC brush motor
I have measured the max current of H bridge with ACS sensor with STM32 uC
and wrote down for four different duty of PWM
I also measured the Vsource
I measured the L and R of the motor with LCR meter
I locked the rotor of the motor
however the calculated I max and measured I max are very different from each other
I have attached an excel file for calculating the I max of RL circuit from power electronics book of Muhammad Rashid
I tried with diferent R and L however still not a match
what am I doing wrong ?
please advise
thank you

Advertisement

22nd February 2019, 20:15 #2
Awards:
 Join Date
 Apr 2014
 Posts
 15,611
 Helped
 3557 / 3557
 Points
 77,053
 Level
 67
Re: how to match calculated and measured current of a brush DC motor ?
Hi,
I assume you just donīt take waveform into account.
Donīt use "RMS" measurement here, neither for voltage nor for current
Donīt use "max" measurement method.
> use "average" measurement method.
KlausPlease donīt contact me via PM, because there is no time to respond to them. No friend requests. Thank you.
1 members found this post helpful.

23rd February 2019, 11:40 #3
 Join Date
 Jan 2009
 Location
 Istanbul , Turkey
 Posts
 196
 Helped
 1 / 1
 Points
 2,883
 Level
 12
Re: how to match calculated and measured current of a brush DC motor ?
hello ,
Where can I find the formulas for calculating the average current ?
my final goal is to find the speed of the motor from current measurement
thank you

23rd February 2019, 12:41 #4
 Join Date
 Jan 2008
 Location
 Bochum, Germany
 Posts
 45,259
 Helped
 13768 / 13768
 Points
 259,231
 Level
 100
Re: how to match calculated and measured current of a brush DC motor ?
Difference between peak and average current isn't very large in this circuit, the observed differences between calculation and measured currents can't be explained this way.
There are however unclear points:
 what's the Hbridge switching pattern?
 is it correct to neglect switch voltage drops?
 does the Hbridge driver involve dead time respectively asymmetrical delay?
Without an actual motor voltage waveform, it's mostly guessing.
my final goal is to find the speed of the motor from current measurement
1 members found this post helpful.

25th February 2019, 14:54 #5
 Join Date
 Jan 2009
 Location
 Istanbul , Turkey
 Posts
 196
 Helped
 1 / 1
 Points
 2,883
 Level
 12
Re: how to match calculated and measured current of a brush DC motor ?
hello ,
gate signals of one leg ( the other leg Low MOS always ON )
IR2183 driver has 500 ns deadtime
motor voltage and current waveforms (ACS sensor output)
MOSFET data
STP100NF04
Nchannel 40V  0.0043Ω  120A  TO220  D2PAK
STripFET II Power MOSFET
how to calculate the current and speed of motor correctly ?
which formulas are valid ?
thank you for your help
   Updated   
this is the current signal when motor locked  other waveforms same

25th February 2019, 17:10 #6
 Join Date
 Jan 2008
 Location
 Bochum, Germany
 Posts
 45,259
 Helped
 13768 / 13768
 Points
 259,231
 Level
 100
Re: how to match calculated and measured current of a brush DC motor ?
You are apparently showing the D=0.35 case, calculated and measured peak current is only 5% apart here. If you are asking why the difference is so big for D=0.14, you should show the respective measurements.
As for your general questions, it's useful to determine the average current over a PWM period, average current is proportional to motor torque. Speed is in a first order proportional to motor voltage, or more exactly motor emf, terminal voltage  voltage drop at winding resistance.
1 members found this post helpful.

26th February 2019, 12:05 #7
 Join Date
 Jan 2009
 Location
 Istanbul , Turkey
 Posts
 196
 Helped
 1 / 1
 Points
 2,883
 Level
 12
Re: how to match calculated and measured current of a brush DC motor ?
I locked the rotor and give different duty and measured average , max and min motor current
I have 750 W transformer 220 / 24 V which I rectify and apply to circuit
I took 30 measurements in 100 uSec ( PWM frequency is 10 Khz )
I quicksort algorithm the measured data
I took average of 30 measuremets for average
took average of 3 most high measurements for I max
took average of 3 most low measurements for I min
as mentioned above I calculated R of motor from average measurements
the R is not constant ( I need constant R value for calculating speed when motor is running  isnt?)
I dont understand  I am stuck
neither average calculated R is constant
nor I max calculation from formulas of Muhammad Rashid power electronics book
gives same values as measured data

Advertisement

26th February 2019, 12:17 #8
 Join Date
 Jan 2008
 Location
 Bochum, Germany
 Posts
 45,259
 Helped
 13768 / 13768
 Points
 259,231
 Level
 100
Re: how to match calculated and measured current of a brush DC motor ?
D=0.141 waveforms?
1 members found this post helpful.

26th February 2019, 14:20 #9
 Join Date
 Jan 2009
 Location
 Istanbul , Turkey
 Posts
 196
 Helped
 1 / 1
 Points
 2,883
 Level
 12

26th February 2019, 14:32 #10
Awards:
 Join Date
 Apr 2014
 Posts
 15,611
 Helped
 3557 / 3557
 Points
 77,053
 Level
 67
Re: how to match calculated and measured current of a brush DC motor ?
Hi,
are you sure you gave the system enough time  before each measurement  for the values to stabilize.
Mind:
the first PWM periodīs average current will be low.. then it will increase...after a certain time it will not increase (noticably) anymore. Then itīs time to start the measurement.
Mind:
that the coil (copper) will become warm... the warmer the higher the copper resistance.
Klaus
   Updated   
Hi,
I have one question ; should not the current waveform be like this ?
* coil: triangle shape
* driver: like your hand drawn picture.
KlausPlease donīt contact me via PM, because there is no time to respond to them. No friend requests. Thank you.
1 members found this post helpful.

26th February 2019, 14:53 #11
 Join Date
 Jan 2008
 Location
 Bochum, Germany
 Posts
 45,259
 Helped
 13768 / 13768
 Points
 259,231
 Level
 100
Re: how to match calculated and measured current of a brush DC motor ?
should not the current waveform be like this ?
My first question is if there are additional components between H bridge and motor, e.g. filters, clamping diodes, saturated inductors. What's the exact motor type, does it involve eddy currents?
1 members found this post helpful.

27th February 2019, 11:27 #12
 Join Date
 Jan 2009
 Location
 Istanbul , Turkey
 Posts
 196
 Helped
 1 / 1
 Points
 2,883
 Level
 12
Re: how to match calculated and measured current of a brush DC motor ?
@Klaus: I wait 3 seconds until circuit stabilize
the ACS circuit is at the input to the H bridge
@FvM:
there is an electrolytic capacitor parallel to H bridge C18 1000uF
U10 is ACS current sensor
D37 D38 are not present
component values are not real
other than that it is a standart H bridge
the motor label
the motor is standart DC brush motor with 24 V brake
Its current can be 50 Amperes when the wheelchair is against an obstacle
thank you

27th February 2019, 12:13 #13
 Join Date
 Jan 2008
 Location
 Bochum, Germany
 Posts
 45,259
 Helped
 13768 / 13768
 Points
 259,231
 Level
 100
Re: how to match calculated and measured current of a brush DC motor ?
O.K. that's unexpected. You are measuring Hbridge DC link current rather than motor current. The deviations from expected waveform in post #9 can be mainly explained by capacitor C18.
If you are interested in motor current, I would measure it directly. Peak currents will be always different, motor average current can be probably calculated by putting in bridge duty cycle.
Imot,avg = IDC,avg/D
1 members found this post helpful.

Advertisement

28th February 2019, 10:57 #14
 Join Date
 Jan 2009
 Location
 Istanbul , Turkey
 Posts
 196
 Helped
 1 / 1
 Points
 2,883
 Level
 12
Re: how to match calculated and measured current of a brush DC motor ?
@FvM
thank you for your answer
//// Imot,avg = IDC,avg/D \\\\\
is there a webpage or book, where I can find this equation and theoretical explanation of this ?

28th February 2019, 11:05 #15
Awards:
 Join Date
 Apr 2014
 Posts
 15,611
 Helped
 3557 / 3557
 Points
 77,053
 Level
 67
Re: how to match calculated and measured current of a brush DC motor ?
Hi,
a paper, a pencil, drawing both current waveforms, estimating the average of both currents, estimating the relationship of both average currents....
> maybe you can safe the cost for the book.
KlausPlease donīt contact me via PM, because there is no time to respond to them. No friend requests. Thank you.
1 members found this post helpful.

3rd March 2019, 21:23 #16
 Join Date
 Jan 2009
 Location
 Istanbul , Turkey
 Posts
 196
 Helped
 1 / 1
 Points
 2,883
 Level
 12
Re: how to match calculated and measured current of a brush DC motor ?
@Klaus @FvM
hello thank you for your advise
however I didnot take pencil and paper but I opened MS Excel
and calculated R_motor with FvM's formula
and it worked really
now I have another question
The IR2183 gate driver has 500 ns dead time
the motor current can reach 50 Amperes max at 24 V
my question ; is this deadtime enough ?
or what value does it have to have ?
+ Post New Thread
Please login