+ Post New Thread
Results 1 to 9 of 9

6th February 2019, 19:04 #1
 Join Date
 Dec 2015
 Location
 Madrid, Spain
 Posts
 1,244
 Helped
 308 / 308
 Points
 7,079
 Level
 20
About Impedance matching
Hello everyone,
In order to have maximum power transfer, source and load impedances must be matched => results in 50% efficiency.
On the other hand, if we would increase the Load impedance with respect to the source impedance, efficiency is increased. This is the reason SMPS work, because the output impedance is small compared to the loads they power. Why isn't applied the same principle to RF PA ? Why don't just increase the load to say 100 times bigger than the source ?
Consider example:
Source (Vsource) > source resistance (Rsource) > load resistance (R)
efficiency (eta)=R/(R+Rsource) = x/(1+x) where x=R/Rsource. For x=100, efficiency close to 100%. Why don't apply a "lossless matching network" that increases the load resistance ?
Output Power = Vsource^{2}*R/(R+Rsource)^{2} => if R>>Rsource, then all the power goes to the load, same as in SMPS. Why not apply this to RF PA ?
Thank you for your time !

Advertisment

6th February 2019, 19:36 #2
 Join Date
 Nov 2013
 Posts
 560
 Helped
 123 / 123
 Points
 3,690
 Level
 14
Re: About Impedance matching
When the impedances aren't matched some of the source power can come back from the load. This is called reflection.
So reflected power won't be radiated, it will be dissipated on the transferring elements, and on the source impedance.
Reflection is negligible if the transmission line dimensions are much smaller than wavelength of the operating frequency.
In high power high frequency circuits (RF PA) the power device, filter element and transmission line sizes are comparable with the wavelength, so matching is very important to minimalize reflection."Try SCE to AUX." /John Aaron/
1 members found this post helpful.

6th February 2019, 20:19 #3
 Join Date
 Mar 2005
 Location
 California, USA
 Posts
 4,301
 Helped
 954 / 954
 Points
 22,506
 Level
 36
Re: About Impedance matching
Further, if you have an impedance mismatch, aside from loss of power, you may get distortion as the reflected signal collides with the source signal.
1 members found this post helpful.

Advertisment

6th February 2019, 23:11 #4
 Join Date
 Jan 2008
 Location
 Bochum, Germany
 Posts
 43,773
 Helped
 13308 / 13308
 Points
 251,342
 Level
 100
Re: About Impedance matching
RF PAs don't necessarily implement impedance matching on the source side, otherwise they won't achieve efficiency like 70 or 80 percent. In so far your reasoning isn't wrong. The backside is that you need a circulator to absorb load reflections.
1 members found this post helpful.

Advertisment

6th February 2019, 23:21 #5
 Join Date
 Nov 2013
 Posts
 560
 Helped
 123 / 123
 Points
 3,690
 Level
 14
Re: About Impedance matching
The final output of the PA isn't matched sometimes? I mean where the antenna or transmission line (cable) is connected?
I haven't got too much experience with PA and circulator, but circulator's terminations are matched as I know."Try SCE to AUX." /John Aaron/

6th February 2019, 23:41 #6
 Join Date
 Jan 2008
 Location
 Bochum, Germany
 Posts
 43,773
 Helped
 13308 / 13308
 Points
 251,342
 Level
 100
Re: About Impedance matching
A classC PA driving 50 ohm load often has not 50 ohm source impedance.
1 members found this post helpful.

7th February 2019, 02:45 #7
 Join Date
 Aug 2016
 Posts
 240
 Helped
 37 / 37
 Points
 1,553
 Level
 9
Re: About Impedance matching
No, this is not correct. Efficiency cannot increase. Efficiency is highest at maximum power transfer == Rload=Rsource.
Sketch a simple circuit and calculate the power that the load sees at the different instances of Rload>Rsource, Road=Rsource and Rload<Rsource and you'd realize that maximum power is transfered at Rload=Rsource.
Akanimo.

Advertisment

7th February 2019, 16:44 #8
 Join Date
 Mar 2012
 Posts
 360
 Helped
 70 / 70
 Points
 2,866
 Level
 12
Re: About Impedance matching
Your first sentence is wrong. To simplify the discussion, assume only resistances. It is true that max power transfer is obtained by adjusting the load resistance to the source resistance, if the source resistance must remain constant. But, more power at higher efficiency can be obtained by decreasing the source resistance, if you can do it. Increasing the load resistance greater than the source resistance increases the efficiency, but lowers the amount of power transferred. Assume a source voltage of 12 volts and a source resistance of 6 ohms. Start with a load resistance of 6 ohms and compute the amount of power transferred and the efficiency. Then lower the source resistance and notice of both the amount of power and efficiency increases. Do the same after increasing the load resistance. Notice how the efficiency increases, but the power transferred goes down.
RatchHopelessly Pedantic

7th February 2019, 20:21 #9
 Join Date
 Dec 2015
 Location
 Madrid, Spain
 Posts
 1,244
 Helped
 308 / 308
 Points
 7,079
 Level
 20
Re: About Impedance matching
Yes. In cases where reflection is negligible (i.e. wavelenght is much higher than the T line length), it is not necessary to have matching. I mean, you can design your PA to deliver the necessary power the the load, having Rload>>Rsource without any drawback in return.
Max power transfer does not mean max efficiency. Equations already provided in OP.

Ok, so the point of this thread is "what approach to take for new design". So I see it is already done, as referenced by FvM. The other backside is that you need to design your output voltage for the load you need to drive, which increases as you increase the load and you need high power... unless the source resistance is very very small.
Yes. That is the point for a new design. That is what I was thinking for the approach to take.
Increasing the load resistance greater than the source resistance increases the efficiency, but lowers the amount of power transferred.
How small is the source impedance typicall ? What is the Load to source ratio usually ?Last edited by CataM; 7th February 2019 at 20:27.
+ Post New Thread
Please login