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    ADS Layout , no EM models, Ground problem

    Hello
    I have a passive filter with a 6-layers PCB.
    this is the substrate:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I have drawn the schematic in ADS using Lumped-with Artwork and simulated it.
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    then using Generate/update Layout, I transferred it to a layout as shown below:
    (plus I have used rectangular with 20 mils clearance)

    Click image for larger version. 

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    but I have some problems with EM simulation:

    when I double click on the vias:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    is it right for a 6-layers PCB?


    no EM model:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    would you please give me an straight answer?

    Best Regards

    •   Alt11th February 2018, 23:14

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  2. #2
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    Re: ADS Layout , no EM models, Ground problem

    The ports of RLC components are "Layout Purpose Only" not for EM Simulation.Therefore ADS cannot find any model for them.
    Instead, you should place a "Port" for each component's Pin and do your EM simulation then attribute a component model ( linear or SPICE based) for each component.
    So, you have to do Co-Simulation with these components in Schematic Simulation Environment.GND Port is particularly used for some problems otherwise GND is common for all components.Don't place GND Port in EM Simulation mode.



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    Re: ADS Layout , no EM models, Ground problem

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBoss View Post
    The ports of RLC components are "Layout Purpose Only" not for EM Simulation.Therefore ADS cannot find any model for them.
    Instead, you should place a "Port" for each component's Pin and do your EM simulation then attribute a component model ( linear or SPICE based) for each component.
    So, you have to do Co-Simulation with these components in Schematic Simulation Environment.GND Port is particularly used for some problems otherwise GND is common for all components.Don't place GND Port in EM Simulation mode.
    Dear
    Thanks
    you mean I should use "lumped-components" in schematic instead of "Lumped-with Artworks"?
    How should I attribute models?
    I watched the below video before
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0OMSx1vLnc
    I did like him but there is no SMD models for Resistors, Capacitors, Inductors in ADS design Libraries.



    •   Alt12th February 2018, 08:37

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    Re: ADS Layout , no EM models, Ground problem

    I have downloaded some ADS libraries and unzipped it and checked the definition files.
    then I drew a schematic as shown below:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    but when I want to simulate it I see this error message:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    what should I do?

    I couldn't find well documented tutorials for ADS. most of Keysight's tutorials are advertisement.

    Thanks



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    Re: ADS Layout , no EM models, Ground problem

    For the designkit components, you often need an INCLUDE element that tells ADS to include the library definitions. Check the component palette of your library.



    •   Alt12th February 2018, 17:11

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    Re: ADS Layout , no EM models, Ground problem

    Quote Originally Posted by volker@muehlhaus View Post
    For the designkit components, you often need an INCLUDE element that tells ADS to include the library definitions. Check the component palette of your library.
    Thanks
    Do you see any problem?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I have chosen all the components from the Palette.



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    Re: ADS Layout , no EM models, Ground problem

    As I wrote above: you also need to place the "TDK netlist include" on your schematic. That is the first component in your palette (top left).



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    Re: ADS Layout , no EM models, Ground problem

    Quote Originally Posted by volker@muehlhaus View Post
    As I wrote above: you also need to place the "TDK netlist include" on your schematic. That is the first component in your palette (top left).
    OK :) Thanks
    I have set a 6-layers substrate as shown below:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    as you see I should mount the components on the top side (metal6) but when I want to transfer it to layout:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    I want to route some tracks on the top side, but the components don't have some pads on the top side! I tried to change the pad layer but I couldn't do it.
    would you please help me.
    Last edited by xzsawq21; 12th February 2018 at 23:04.



  9. #9
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    Re: ADS Layout , no EM models, Ground problem

    I have never used that library, but have you tried to do what the message says?

    Looking at that default color, it looks like you have some SMD pads on layer cond? And the TDK pads on other layers?



    •   Alt13th February 2018, 16:14

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  10. #10
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    Re: ADS Layout , no EM models, Ground problem

    Quote Originally Posted by volker@muehlhaus View Post
    I have never used that library, but have you tried to do what the message says?

    Looking at that default color, it looks like you have some SMD pads on layer cond? And the TDK pads on other layers?
    Dear
    Yes, I think I should set something in schematic to set these components at top layer
    I have opened an example from default path in ADS's folder:
    C:\Program Files\Keysight\ADS2016_01\examples\Training\Layout
    actually they have used symbols instead of prepared models (Design Kits) as shown below, so they could set the layer as you see:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    But I have used prepared models (Design Kits) by vendors, but I don't know how I should define the layers.
    the error is:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    in below topic I found something:
    https://www.edaboard.com/showthread.php?t=292488
    this is one of pics in his topic:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm sorry I couldn't edit my message, eventually I could find the SMT_PAD,
    Click image for larger version. 

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    but I have a new problem!

    as you see I could set the SMT_Pad for the resistors bcoz in resistor's property I can access to this parameter as shown below:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    but for the capacitor there is no such parameter in its property:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    how should I add "SMT_Pad" parameter in capacitor's property?
    Thanks



  11. #11
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    Re: ADS Layout , no EM models, Ground problem

    It seems that the TDK library does not use SMT_PAD for layer settings, that is only for the ADS built-in elements.
    I don't know how TDK components set the layers. Maybe in the "TDK netlist include" element? Is there documentation for that library?



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