MY BROTHERS ELEKTRONIACS LIFE IS GETTING TOUGH!

The ELECTRONICS industry in CHANGING dramatically and very fast.
I live in the USA and i see that this present CRISIS is shaping the industry in a new way !
I've been in this bussines for now 25 years(i'm 45 still youg to die and not to old to rock & roll) . I started designing RF amplifiers with vacum tubes ..then i jumped in the COMPUTER REVOLUTION Wagon .
later i did SOME AI (artificial who knows what) then SUPERCOMPUTER stuff (Hypercubes wih SANI ). i endded up doing embedded .. It's small
inexpensive and creative .. I'm now trying to understand laser technology ..But i'm getting tired ..Over the years i did several inventions .. I it looks that's the only way for a ELECTRONIC ENGINEER .to exist ..He has to gain INDEPENDANCE .. I worked for BIG FIRMS as INTEL and OTHERS .. But it was not REWARDING in a CREATIVE way ..i was employed to deal wih a tiny part of a big DESIGN! which i couldn't grasp entierly!

SO i decided to share this with you .Because it looks like if we want to stay in this bussines we will have to design our own products and try to go to the MARKET . This INDUSTRY was started by VISIONARIES , CREATIVE PEOPLE .. like those guys of Hewlett Packard . Now is in hands of Speculators and People that don't give a peanut .In the HEWLETT PACKARD example ..Their PAPER and INK division is NOW MORE VALUABLE that their SERVER division! ..

It occurred to me that This place (ELEKTRODA ) not only could be used for RESOURCES but for also FEEDBACK on ORIGINAL ideas (inventions)

If we could structure an INTERCHANGE FORUM OF IDEAS ..
some PEOPLE could came and try to WORK on a PARTICULAR CONCEPT
Also we COULD try to SHARE information on HOW to gain acces TO CAPITAL!

Call me CRAZY .. ! What do you think??

Elton

training

One suggestion for people still in school is to select classes in basic theory and not things that you can learn later, like how to operate a certain computer program. The laws of physics do not change. Your training in theory will serve you for the rest of your life.

Another thing is to take the maximum number of classes the school will allow. It doesn't take any more of your life for a full load and in most schools it does not cost more or at least incrementally it is very small.

One thing to keep in mind is that the "age of electronics" is coming to a close just like the "age of steam" did 100 years ago. By this I mean that the rapid expansion of business and jobs in these two areas reached a plateau. There is still a living to make in steam engines, but there are no fortunes to be made in it. Electronics will become the same.

For individuals there are still fun jobs running your own business in a niche market.

I agree. The future of AI engineers doesn't look good at all. Half of my friends in USA are in unemployment status. Every time, we have a junior opening for jobs, I receive about 300 qualified resumes, much more qualified than myself ( Ph.D. from Standford with 10 years of experience or better). The only area that I think will be booming is healthcare industry. If you can use the electronic skills in the healthcare industry, we will be ok for the next 10 years or so.

Hello,
I have people and latest technology..If any one interested in investing money, we can think and work for the next step.
Let we know if any one interested....
Regards
NVP

I think eltonjohn is very pesimistic. In my oppinion there is a lot of work for electronics in the market, and there is many fortunes to get.
My collegues said thet there was a lot of niches (i hope it is right english word, like ecological niche) on the market.
For instance If you would like to work out new microprocessor, you are to fail, becouse of very high competition, there are a lot of firm with higher power, and they could eat you.
But in the niche, you could find it yourself, you are alone for long time. For instance I work in the field of sensors. On this market the whole technology I need is the "kitchen level" technology, even without any equipment it could be made.
I think the best describtion it would be citation from app note of one, very famous firm on the market about PID temperature controll:
"New on the model 120". and of course prices in $ are with FOUR digits, and if you add "remote controll" to description of equipment, additional digit could be add to the price.

So I am rather optimistic about the future, but of course flatulent is right, The laws of physics do not change, and you have to learn on how to use it.

I think there is another problem. There is a lot of peoples with very good ideas, lot of peoples with skill and technology, and a lot of peoples with money, but it is very difficult to get them together to make fortunes.

regards
KamW

Another aspect to the varying business opportunies has been introduced by the advent of the internet in the developing world. Traditionally business has been relying around trading and trading has been relying around information. Now all this information is so easy to get in this wired world. Now an Engineer in USA has to compete with an engineer in India and China. A product in Bosnia has to compete with the one in Germany. While this makes making money for some more difficult, it also makes at lot easier for others. I think the key to the success lies in constant adaptation. If you can no more make money by keeping the manufacturer and consumer far apart, you can still make money in a lot of other ways.

Ha ha, eltonjohn,

You've been the u.s.a for how long now and, you still can't speak proper english?

Sorry dude, you just sound like someone looking for someone else to give you an idea so that you can steal and make millions with...

After all, it's the american way!!

ha ha
Get a life!!

Purloiner

What a little person you are .! .. So many assumptions in 4 lines of text!
The world is becoming full of disarray ..

One more ...!

Who will notice it !

Have a great week end my friend .... !

Hi guy's,

In the generation of my parents, usualy they got a few jobs during the entire life and could finish on 65 years without many problems.
The big difference is that this is not true anymore!
Now, you have noting anymore for your entire life, partner, job, money, respect .....
It is a contimuous struggle until you are retired.
I'm 51 years old, I have a degree in mechanical engineering, a Phd in electronics, I speak 6 languages, 20 years experience in management.
I'm a Western European, here on 45 years old you are out of the game, this is some how different in the US with respect to the age.
After loosing my job when I was 48 years old (economical situation of the company where I was employed), maybe I know a lot of things but most of those potential jobs need only a part of this knowledge and they prefer 30-35 years candidates.
It was impossible to find an other job, I was just married again and a new born baby ....
My only option was to start as self employed and decide to do consulting in the embedded systems, I did this many years mainly for hobby but did a few commercial projects. I can tell you that it is VERY difficult to find jobs, to many established company's are out there, no very much investment during this difficult economic time.
I continue to seek for a job and finaly succed to get a job as plant manager but it was needed to relocate to Eastern Europe.
I manage a plant with 500 people in electronic assembling.
The message is "get as much knowledge you can, be flexible" and you have a chance to finish full employed until you are retired but nothing is like in the old day's anymore.

hc

control system

The job market is like a gigantic control system with a severe delay. One problem is that first there is a shortage of workers in a new area plus unwarranted expectations of the future of that area. This causes people going to school to train for that area. The future turns out to not be so optimistic in the area and there are fewer jobs available and an oversupply of workers. Usually an 8 year supply. It then takes 8 years for enough workers to retire to get the supply and demand in equilibrium.

One spectacular example was the US space program from 1960-1970. They employed huge numbers of engineers. This stimulated the supply of engineers. The space program was drastically scaled down after that and about 60% of the new engineering graduates ended up taking nonengineering jobs.

It all depends on the skill and your area of competence....

There are loads of VHDL people with few jobs around - digital is easy - analogue design is hard, only 2-3% of each graduate intake in electronics persue a career in analogue most go for digital because a lot of the CAD systems do all the hard work - that's why it' easy to design in places like India etc.

Mixed signal, RFIC & DSP are still in great demand in the UK and the military sector still always require RF & Microwave for radios, radar etc.

Low power CMOS seems a growth area, but until 3G really kicks in the telecomms market remains flat.

Sub-contracting is an option if you don't mind living out of a shoe box but I for one can't be bothered to travel, 15 mins on the train is enough for me, but if the 'perfect job' pops up then I'll move..

At the moment companies are looking for 95% match on their candidates while before the Telecomms crash it was about 50% and as long as you were vaguely RF you got the job..

But things will turn around - engineering is very cyclic - the trick is to predict the next fad and try to train in advance. The only saving grace is less and less UK graduates do electronics (or eningineering and science in general) so there will be a skills shortage in a few years!!

eltonjohn said:

This INDUSTRY was started by VISIONARIES , CREATIVE PEOPLE .. like those guys of Hewlett Packard . Now is in hands of Speculators and People that don't give a peanut .In the HEWLETT PACKARD example ..Their PAPER and INK division is NOW MORE VALUABLE that their SERVER division! ..

Click to expand...

Eltonjohn I feel so sorry:

Of course their paper/ink division must be a lot rewarding than server division. Consume of paper/ink in market.

I am using a PC for 7 years because I know with what I have in front of me does work for what I need to do.

But I need paper/ink every 2 months.

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The best designer is often working in the marketing department.
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Sometimes is tough. The most classical example-story is of Serbian-American inventor Nikola Tesla. Poor guy until he died had a record number of 700 patents and thousands of designs of splendid inventions. Yet he died broke.

Oh yes some morons later made millions selling books about him. Look amazon.com sells 20 different books dedicated to Nikola Tesla.


Some laws must change. A patent expires afer certain time. Big corporations will not let you win. They wait until patent expires and then by that time they start utilize what is now a "public domain" property.

Well I finish my post telling: work and make a living. This is the world.

Re: training

flatulent said:

Another thing is to take the maximum number of classes the school will allow. It doesn't take any more of your life for a full load and in most schools it does not cost more or at least incrementally it is very small.

Click to expand...

In my country nobody has to pay to study, on the contrary we all get paid US$742.5 each month from the state to study.
Unfortunaly we don't get paid more if we take more claseses though, we still "only" get $742.5 each mont.
And if we use more than one year more than the estimated time for an education we don't get paid any more, but it's still free.
Taht means that if we use more than 6 years to finish a study that is estimated to 5 years, we don't get paid anymore montly fee for the rest of the education, we can still finsih the study for free though.

When we watch an American teen movie, we always find it a bit odd that teenagers are trying to get a university scolarship. Here everybody is paid to go to high scool and university so we don't need any scolarships.

Here everyone has free social security and healt security too, no matter if they have ever had a job or not.

wow great ME where is your country?

745dollars for me costs a credit hour in university.

djalli said:

wow great ME where is your country?

745dollars for me costs a credit hour in university.

Click to expand...

Denmark

Why on earth am I in USA.

God you go in school and get paid. Here in US I must worry how am I going to afford paying my school loans (I have 50,000$) in years to come. Economy is so bad. Forget about health care which you in Europe basic health care is free.

US factories now are in China, Indonesia, Malasia, India. Where I am going to find a job.

Hi Djalli .. I hear you men .. is funny because we in the USA we know that this system sucks and yet some of us are willing to go out there and KILL to defend it .. I need to sell my house now .Because all engineering in my state has collapsed .. I was happy of my past material accomplishments
Until i saw i had nothing major.The real estate market is collapsing and out the blue .. my house lost 50% of its value .I could have sold it when the market was good but i see that other places are no better .I will certainly not go to RETIRE in FLORIDA ! .. So today i took my old MGA a bottle of CABERNET my little SHIT-ZU dog and went for a RIDE .. i saw all people struggling .Yes this 11 september day of the attacks . I saw some people being Evicted from their homes because they can't afford RENT or the MORTAGE .. And yet others were feeling PATRIOTIC like the war against a shadow was going full throttle with some logic. All this to me know looks like a PREMONITION OF DANTESC SITUATION TO COME .. some thing like GARCIA'S MARQUEZ "CHRONICLE OF AN ANNOUCED DEATH" Is funny once again i started this FORUM ALMOST NOW A YEAR AGO and i was already very pesimistic and a year later the situation is even worst . But there was this morning .. in my ride i saw houses that were apraised for $500,000 were going for $200,000
i saw beautiful cottage going for just that in the middle of a wood .Then i said the hell with all .. I only need a peaceful retreat so my take on this situation has changed .Stupid people do stupid decisions .. But the problem is that now a guy againt it can't change anymore . We all are too many people.. is like in CHAOS THEORY a strange ATTRACTOR .. Eventually that thing looks like a TOILET swirl .we all going down the drain.
Well I see this new generation of americans ..They don't even have the FANTASTIC GOOD MUSIC of the PAST .! I recall David Bowe's "Young AMERICANS" well is hell now for them i see them like childs lost in a lost world ( by the moody blues) .I at leat can play the great BOB DYLAN and still feel that he know the truth ........AHHHHHHHHH .. i just saw a movie and an interview of him and heard him say to be lost ....
You see being stupid .. don't read .. don't analyse .. and you will be happy i see a lot of people that enjoy those AWFUL DREADFUL American beers .. they seem to be happy .. i imagine that their life is also a simple as that disgusting beer !
I just can't my life is hard!

hi eltonjohn.
I am registered to vote in US. Kerry promises not to allow companies go overseas but who is he lying to.

My brother just saw Kerry has shares in US companies in Malaysia.

US factories are out there because is cheaper to find workforce so Kerry can make more money from his shares. What Kerry says contradicts his sayings. Kerry is a pure double liar.

Bush is screaming to help small businesses and what he means with small busineses: pizza shops.

On one hand is bad because those factories in China, India, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, Latin America are source of income for those workers. They need those jobs!

Kodak which is mostly in Brasil has not a single factory in USA today and only headquarters are here in States employing 200,000 workers in Brasil alone. They need that income.

This is not right because USA economy is expanding which means new factories are created overseas. When they mention figures of USA economy expanding they mean US businesses or factories overseas in most of the cases.

Kerry says he will not allow it but as double liar as he is he bought shares from new US factories overseas.

To vote for Nader? is nothing. Just look like a fool. I will vote for Kerry with hope (!!!) to stop an unuseful military agression. I was Ok with hitting Afganistan because Bin Laden camps were there but Mr. Bush intentions were else.

I am not powerful.

I was Ok with hitting Afganistan because Bin Laden camps were there but Mr. Bush intentions were else

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did u ever think who made those camps???? who supported those camps???? the american government built those camps themselves by supporting the taliban for the war against russia. huge amounts of money were given to the talibans to fight againts the russians. the american government gave every type of weaponry to them. they were the freedom fighters those days. and now for no reason they have become terrorists. come on wake up!!!!!!!!!!

No offence people, but please can I suggest that we do not discuss matters of a controversial political nature?

We all have our own political ideals and beliefs but this is not the place to discuss them.

This is a place to learn about electronic engineering in a atmosphere of sharing and safety, and sometimes discuss aspects of life that impact on our careers; but not real politics.

Let's not bring the unsavoury side of life here - we see enough of it on the streets and television.

Thank you for listening,
FoxyRick.