making an electromagnet to hold train wheels to a track...

[quantboy]

I have a project I'm working on where I need to have a model train be able to have an electromagnet hold its wheels to the track -- so that it can go "upsides down" and resist derailment.

I'm making the wheels and the track -- so all options are on the table.

If I used a steel track (say 1/4"x1/x4" square stock) and soft iron wheels, what would be the best way to put a coil or coils such that the wheels would be "pulled" to the track? Coils inside the hub of the wheels? just wrap the axle of the train and hope the magnetism transfers? Looking for any ideas and theory on this...

Thanks in advance,

Ted

 

[D.A.(Tony)Stewart]

MagneTraction as Lionel called it was great for pulling more loads on incline less likely to slip or tip on corners. That was on HO scale.

With N scale being lighter and smaller track, there is less contact surface. Permanent magnets will cause magnetic dust pickup faster and electromagnets have to overcome the surface area problem and weight increase of the e-magnet.

What makes you think it is feasible?

 

[quantboy]

MagneTraction as Lionel called it...

I never heard of this system before... THANK YOU...

When you say, " What makes you think it is feasible? "... do you anticipate difficulty in getting an electromagnet that strong? or other problems?

If you were going to try something like this... would you do it this way?:


or more like Lionel's??? except w electromagnets?


ALSO, do you think I need that little piece of iron between the tracks (insulated of course) to complete magnetic lines of force pathway?

Thanks for your thoughts...
Ted

 

[Warpspeed]

I cannot see this working through the wheels, as the contact point to the rail would make a very poor magnetic circuit.

An electromagnet is going to be heavy, and that is self defeating if you want to run it upside down. It needs to be made as light as possible.

Best bet might be a pair of rare earth permanent magnets on each side (four in total) working with a "suitable" air gap to the rails at each end, with steel bar within the rolling stock running lengthways to complete the magnetic circuit along each side with the rail.

It expect it will clog with magnetic particles pretty quickly in the air gap, but that may actually make it work even better ! The resulting sliding friction with the rail may need more motive power to make it go, but that should not be an insurmountable problem. There will certainly be plenty of traction with the rails to overcome that.

Another way might be to just use standard wheels and rails, and run a thick wide steel plate down the middle between the rails.
This will produce a huge surface area for a pair of rectangular rare earth magnets to be attracted to. A north pole at one end, and a south pole at the other, with a bar running lengthwise inside the rolling stock to complete the magnetic circuit. The air gap could probably be kept quite large for this to work, as the magnetic cross sectional areas involved in the air gap would be high.

 

[BradtheRad]

You might make the wheels from disc-shaped neodynium magnets. You would have to drill them for the axle, in the exact center, and exactly perpendicular to the surface.

The rails can be steel 1/4 inch as you stated. Contact with the wheel edges will be tiny, perhaps too little to hold up the train.

I suppose such wheels will be unsuitable on normal model railroad track.

 

[D.A.(Tony)Stewart]

I never heard of this system before... THANK YOU...

When you say, " What makes you think it is feasible? "... do you anticipate difficulty in getting an electromagnet that strong? or other problems?

If you were going to try something like this... would you do it this way?:


The force of Lionel Magne-traction HO scale engine can certainly improve traction but doesn't even come close to supporting its own weight even if you had 50x the power

or more like Lionel's??? except w electromagnets?


ALSO, do you think I need that little piece of iron between the tracks (insulated of course) to complete magnetic lines of force pathway?

Thanks for your thoughts...
Ted

The additional traction does not even come close to supporting the engine weight on these models even if you apply 10x the power at the same weight without burning out anything.

Sorry the concept is not feasible to me,

 

[quantboy]

Thank you all -- will go back to the drawing board and see what I can work / think up.
Appreciate the replies!
Ted