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Help: Advise before turning down PhD opportunity in Italy...

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spectrallypure

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phd in analog design

Hi all, I would really appreciate a piece of advice.

I have been given the opportunity to do a PhD in the field of Electromagnetic Compatibility at chip level (microelectronics EMC) at Politecnico di Torino (ITALY), but I am reluctant mostly for the following reasons:

1.Microelectronics EMC was never my target specialization area. It its not that I don't like it, but I always dreamed of specializing in analog design (RFICs/MMICs/etc) and become an "artist" designer or a professor/researcher. Now I am very unsure of this because I hear everywhere about analog designers not getting jobs at all, that industry is not willing to train fresh people anymore, that they all want people with a lot of experience, that the supply largely outnumbers the demand. I also hear that everything in analog has already been done, that people is just devising new ways of doing the same old things in the new processes, etc. On the other hand, the professor that is offering my the PhD assures me that microelectronics EMC is a nascent field, with just a few groups working on it worldwide, that its impact is going to be *BIG* a few years from now, and that therefore experts in EMC at the chip level will be rewarded very well.

2. I do not hold a MSc (only a BSc, obtained abroad) which I consider would make the experience of the 3-year PhD very painful since I am lacking a lot of formal theory (e.g. solid state physics, analog IC design, high-frequency circuit analysis). I've been working for some months in this field and find these "theory holes" of mine a very limiting and frustrating factor. Right now I would rather do a masters in analog design to formally obtain this knowledge, and tackle the PhD only afterwards.

3. I have been living and working in Italy for 6+ months now and I don't really think its the best place to neither work or do research in microelectronics. From the working point of view, the job opportunities are scarce, salaries are very low in comparison with other European countries; basically there is only one big company (STmicroelectronics) and everybody seems to be killing themselves to get a position there. From the research point of view, universities seem very unorganized and with limited funding. Getting a position in a university is VERY difficult if not impossible and only comes after many years of low-paid postdoc positions. Seems that most fresh researchers are sick and tired of all this and seek jobs elsewhere in other countries.

4. Things are also discouraging from the economic point of view. In Italy the salary of a PhD is around 800 euro/month. As far as I know, this is about half of the salary in other European countries, like Germany or the Netherlands: about 1500euro/month, i guess, maybe even more in Switzerland. And the living cost in Italy is not much lower that in these countries, and for sure there exists top institutions for doing an masters or a PhD there (EPFL, ETH Zurich, KU Leuven just to name a few).


For all the above reasons, I am reluctant about taking the position. I rather apply for a MsC in analog design in Belgium/Swirtzerland/Germany, and then pursue a further PhD afterwards. But I feel I am turning down the "safe option" for the "unsure path"...

What would you recommend doing in my situation? Is specializing in HF analog design realistic these days? Will I starve to die after getting a Phd in analog design? Do you think microelectronics EMC is really a promising new field? Would you stay in Italy to do a PhD?

Thanks in advance for any advice!
 

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what is you age?

Maybe you can try to do a master in analog @KULeuven and then try to obtain a PhD from IMEC?
 

microelectronics phd europe

Have you applied to other places for MsC ?
Twente (B. Nauta), ETH, NTNU (Trondheim) for example ?
I think that the problem is that you will have to start at the MsC level, and this is rarely a paid position, at least in the first year.

If they accept you straight for PhD, well, so much better.

In FR they have this DEA thing, which is the MsC level, and sometimes one can apply for scholarships.

Italy has very limited options for engineers, I hear (from italian colleagues who have left).
 

microelectronics epfl

I'm 26. I finished my BS (in south america) in Electrical Engineering at 23, and then spent a year in an internship in a major celullar operator in my country, where I discovered the world of microwave electronics and decided to pursue a career on HF IC design. So I decided to return back to university to gain some experience in microelectronics and do some very basic research, in order to later apply for graduate studies abroad. However, the lack of money kept me from applying for several years, until now. Now I have about 2-3 years of experience as research and teaching assistant on EE, at the undergraduate level, but that's about it.

How hard is to get admitted for a masters to, say, EPFL or KU Leuven? Do you think I've got a chance with my profile? ...I had very good grades in my BsC and I am fluent in English... :)

Added after 8 minutes:

...well, I think that with some effort I could afford to pay for a 2-year MsC in some of the aforementioned countries, with the hope of performing well and being admitted later for a (paid) PhD.
I am not too concerned about making money right now; I'd rather get a MsC and a PhD from a good institution and in a field such that I can get a decent job after finishing studying. My goal has never been to get rich: I just happen to like analog design and look forward to spend the rest of my life enjoying my job, having fun at it. But I know this field requires a lot of education, training and experience!
 

turning down phd opportunity

mobile-it said:
Maybe you can try to do a master in analog @KULeuven and then try to obtain a PhD from IMEC?

what are the chances for a 5years experienced person for paid phd at IMEC ?
 

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One more question, after all of that you do you think to remain in Italy or to go abroad?
Just to let you know that if you wanna stay in Italy imo it's better for you to start working right now where you wanna because there are no possibility to work in so a specialistic field here.
If you wanna go abroad I shall suggest you to think immediatly where you should wanna work and to study in that country (also because industry and school in the same country have contact that can be usefull for your final year project).
 

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mmarco76 said:
One more question, after all of that you do you think to remain in Italy or to go abroad?

Well that's basically my problem: I don't know if stay here in Italy and take the PhD opportunity in microelectronics emc (an immediate, realistic option), or take my chances and try applying elsewhere in Europe for a MsC (and then a further PhD) in high frequency/microwave analog design (this option is like a bet: I have no certainty that I would get admitted, etc).

But from what I see the panorama of staying in Italy doesn't look very good either way. This is a real pity because there are a lot of good things about this country; it's just that the job perspectives and the economy don't seem to be going anywhere right now! :|

Maybe there are other factors that I am not taking into account in my decision... Do you think am I missing something important? :?:
 

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I don't think you miss something but you've to understand where you wanna live in the future.
Italy has some very nice thing (food, places, etc) but economy, electronic employment (and salaries) are very bad compared to other european reality (see France, Germany, UK and Ireland - I know that for sure because I'm changing work right now and I've been in contact with socieaties in that nations).

Change nation and live abroad maybe for all your life could be strange and difficult for the beginning (you'll be there alone, you need to reconstruct all your social life, new friends and no family near you,so that's the real problem).
If restart from the beginning will not scare you, pack your bags and fly away :)

That is what I'm doing at the moment.
If at the moment you wanna only end your study courses imo also in Italy you can do it (for example at Politecnico di Milano), but after that it'll be very difficult go immediatly abroad without a new working experiences.
So if you stay, you need to end your studies, find work here for a bit (1-2 years, but a lot of people abroad look for people with 5-7 years of experience) and then look for work abroad.

Hope to help you :)

Good luck
 

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mmarco76 said:
(see France, Germany, UK and Ireland - I know that for sure because I'm changing work right now and I've been in contact with socieaties in that nations).

Could you comment on that ? I understand you are italian and you have accepted a job offer abroad.

What did you think of the offers/conditions in the countries you have not chosen ?

I was thinking of this the other day, and a colleague is leaving for a good job offer from a Philips subsidiary.

As for the original poster,

If you are from S.A. then there are specific scholarship offers from the EU for students from there. Most of them go to Spain, some go to Portugal and a few go to France and Italy, etc.

IST in Lisbon offers MsC and PhDs, chipidea and a couple of other companies offer jobs.

In Spain there are few/little jobs for microelectronics, but the conditions for MsC/PhD can be quite nice (food/weather/people and study level).

France has very good support for foreign students (housing, medical insurance, etc), and the scholarship money they pay is OK, I hear. The problem is to learn electronics in french...

KUL in Belgium is a good option if you don't mind the rain and generally poor weather. They pay PhDs, but not MsCs, I think. Same for NL in general. Twente or Delft are good places to try, and apply for scholarship.


I would suggest to enroll in the MsC/PhD course of the country that you think likely to find a job later.

Do you have a work permit for EU already ? If you have, why not applying for a job at IC companies, say as a test engineer ?
 

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I've told only about theese countries because they're the ones I've been in contact for.
I've excluded spain because I don't speak spanish atm and also Germany and France in my first thoughts, but I've been contacted by Multinational that told me that in the work they speak in english because team are internationals and they provided internally french/german courses.

Compared to italy the situation is very simple:
people with more or less the same characteristic/experiences in Italy take a lot less money than in other part of europe expecially compared with house costs and life costs too.
Moreover in some country (Ireland from what little I've seen) taxation is in my opinion done better than in Italy and I agree with politic thoughs under that.

Moreover in Italy there is very few work proposal for specialist role (try to research on Monster or IC-resource words such as FPGA-VHDL and you'll see that from the number offerts in each nation)

You've to consider also lifestile: I mean go abroad has also some problem (first of all you've to change your mother tongue) but life condition shall be more or less the same else it's another different problem. I mean I would like to do more or less thing that I do here (such as you can't accept a good work in a place that is very far from a big center or the opposite you would like to leave far from a big city because you like the peace of that places and in my mind big cities in europe are not so much).


That at least was what push me in research of something abroad and the parameter I've chosen my new work site are simply:
- first of all the kind of work: I mean I like to project digital board and also expecially in some application more than others
- language & lifestile
- money vs cost of life (I've check transportation costs and also some online supermarket and the cost of houses - buy and rent too)
 

phd help advice

Hum... thanks for the interesting opinions. I am very aware of the importance of realizing all what migrating abroad means, Marco. Moreover, I already have left my hometown (in south america) and live and work in foreign country (Italy). But, as you also confirm, job expectations and in general the economy unfortunately are not very promissory here, so I have decided to take my chances and apply to another country for studying and then working. I will still be coming back and forth to Italy because of family matters, though! :D

Just one final question... what about the field of specialization I plan to follow (HF/MW analog IC design)?
Do think it makes sense to pursue a career in this field nowadays?

...I know digital folks still find jobs in the current market (maybe not so good paid jobs, but still they get jobs), but on the other hand I hear so much negative comments about being an analog designer these days (or studying for becoming one)... what do you think? :?:

Thanks for the advice!!!
 

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I'm not the best person to tell you that but from what I've seen from announces analog people still be miss in the market.
Moreover HF considerations are important also in PCB design where the concept of microstrip and a lot of other things (I'm noob in this field) still be important.

If you wanna have an idea of what market is looking for try to see:

www.ic-resources.co.uk (it's a site for announcement for almost all europe).

It's the best information I can give you.

Moreover take in account that situation could change after you'll end your studies.
The important is try to do a job you really like because it'll be what you'll do for 8h/day for almost all your life!
 

phd salary in italy

mmarco76 said:
The important is try to do a job you really like because it'll be what you'll do for 8h/day for almost all your life!

Yes, I totally agree with that! :)
Thanks also for the link!


...could anybody please comment further on the soundness of starting an career in RF Analog IC Design nowadays?
 

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Hi I agree with what Marco has to say...

I am an analog designer... and believe me come what may an analog designer always is in demand... you just need to have a little exp to get a very good offer.
 

if you do phd will strave

Well, after a LOT of thinking and considering also the opinions in the thread "Salaries in Europe" (), I have decided to take my chances and go for a masters in analog design in Belgium or Switzerland! I plan to apply for next year...

Thanks so much for all the useful comments! :D
 

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