Continue to Site

Welcome to EDAboard.com

Welcome to our site! EDAboard.com is an international Electronics Discussion Forum focused on EDA software, circuits, schematics, books, theory, papers, asic, pld, 8051, DSP, Network, RF, Analog Design, PCB, Service Manuals... and a whole lot more! To participate you need to register. Registration is free. Click here to register now.

Register Log in

Battery Internat Resistance Without OCV

Status
Not open for further replies.
Y

yagizhanugur

Junior Member level 3
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Messages
29
Helped
1
Reputation
2
Reaction score
1
Trophy points
3
Location
Turkey
Activity points
239
Hello,

I am working on a project that will meausre internal resistance of a lead acid battery. I know DC Load Test but my problem starts with Open Circuit Voltage(OCV). My batteries always connected to power source and i cannot switch my batteries and power source.

MY CONNECTION :

(-)-----POWER SOURCE--------(+)
(-)-----LOAD (REAL)-----------(+)
(-)-----BATTERY FOR BACKUP--(+)


I can measure instant current and instant voltage and i can switch power source but as i sad before i cannot meausure OCV.

Thanks for help
 

Then just measure the battery voltage directly at the terminals for two different currents.
The battery internal resistance is then just the voltage difference divided by the current difference.
 
crutschow said:
Then just measure the battery voltage directly at the terminals for two different currents.
The battery internal resistance is then just the voltage difference divided by the current difference.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your interest.
I think i could not explain my problem clear. I have any test load and i can not change current. CUrrent change up to real load performance.

**broken link removed**

Here is a product that can do what i want.
 

I think what it is doing is measuring voltage directly across the battery and using a Hall sensor to monitor the current to one or more batteries in a chain (the current will be the same in them all as they are in series). That allows power to charge the battery to be measured and power drawn from the battery to be measured but I can't see how it can measure internal resistance unless there is a change in current. The web page shows the batteries disconnected by a switch so that would prevent any current reading anyway.

As I see it, the batteries must be discharging before internal resistance can be measured that way and the calculation would have to be made by adding time to the equation, in other words monitoring voltage drop per second based on the current being drawn. I would think that measures battery capacity more than internal resistance though.

Brian.
 

Hi,

I don´t understand.
If you have a test load, then why is it not possible to change current? Simply connecting/disconnecting the load to the battery will change the battery current.

Klaus
 

betwixt said:
I think what it is doing is measuring voltage directly across the battery and using a Hall sensor to monitor the current to one or more batteries in a chain (the current will be the same in them all as they are in series). That allows power to charge the battery to be measured and power drawn from the battery to be measured but I can't see how it can measure internal resistance unless there is a change in current. The web page shows the batteries disconnected by a switch so that would prevent any current reading anyway.

As I see it, the batteries must be discharging before internal resistance can be measured that way and the calculation would have to be made by adding time to the equation, in other words monitoring voltage drop per second based on the current being drawn. I would think that measures battery capacity more than internal resistance though.

Brian.
Click to expand...

Thanks. That makes clear something for me. If I know relation between battery internal resistance and capacity, I can calculate internal resistance.

I can integrate battery model in my system and increase my system accurate.
 

yagizhanugur;1559902............. If I know relation between battery internal resistance and capacity said:
There is no direct relation between battery internal resistance and capacity.
Click to expand...
 

KlausST said:
Hi,

I don´t understand.
If you have a test load, then why is it not possible to change current? Simply connecting/disconnecting the load to the battery will change the battery current.

Klaus
Click to expand...
I sad i do not have test load, so i cannot change the current.
crutschow said:
There is no direct relation between battery internal resistance and capacity.
Click to expand...
Have any idea what can i do ?

- - - Updated - - -

I have solved problem with Kelvin (4-wire) Resistance Measurement Circuit.
Kelvin (4-wire) Resistance Measurement
https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/direct-current/chpt-8/kelvin-resistance-measurement/
Thank you.
 

Hi,

test load:

then there must be a typo in your post#3:
I have any test load
Click to expand...

***
So where exactely is the problem:
* You really don´t have a test load? --> every resistor, or a small transistor circuit is suitable
* Or you don´t want or can not connect a load? --> Could you explain why?

***
Alternatively it is possible to "monitor" the load current and wait for the load current to change. Measure different currents with the appropriate voltages. Calculate resistance.

Klaus
 

KlausST said:
Hi,

test load:

then there must be a typo in your post#3:

***
So where exactely is the problem:
* You really don´t have a test load? --> every resistor, or a small transistor circuit is suitable
* Or you don´t want or can not connect a load? --> Could you explain why?

***
Alternatively it is possible to "monitor" the load current and wait for the load current to change. Measure different currents with the appropriate voltages. Calculate resistance.

Klaus
Click to expand...

My system working about 120-140A. If i connect 1-2 A test load, it's affetct will be too small. If i connect smaller loads for high amps their size are too big and prices are expensive.

Secondly,

You are right about monitoring voltage and current but if i use that method i will probably make mistake because of the battery chemical issues. Sometimes battery voltage drop or increase due to the crystallization of battery.
 

There is ohmic resistance, which is present in the battery whether charged or discharged. It is probably outweighed by ohmic resistance in wiring and connectors.
And there is a figure associated with the formula V/A and which has to do with the maximum current available from the battery's chemistry, at any given moment.

Do you wish to examine Peukert effect? The greater Amperes you draw, the greater power is wasted by parasitic resistance.

It would be interesting to know both types of resistance values, however I'm not sure there is an easy way to measure them. In my mind it requires putting a severe load on the battery. That is something to avoid.

My system working about 120-140A.
Click to expand...

Suppose you draw 100A, and voltage is 12V. Then total effective resistance is .12 ohm.
Or suppose voltage is 9V. Total resistance .09 ohm. Not much difference in ohm values, is there? The more interesting figures are V & A. They are also easier to measure.
 

Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Part and Inventory Search

Welcome to EDABoard.com

Sponsor

Back
Top