+ Post New Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 26
  1. #1
    Banned
    Points: 2,204, Level: 10

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    INDIA
    Posts
    272
    Helped
    7 / 7
    Points
    2,204
    Level
    10

    Does earthing reduce electricity bill

    Hello,
    Does earthing reduce electricity bill ?

  2. #2
    Full Member level 5
    Points: 2,946, Level: 12
    Achievements:
    7 years registered Created Blog entry

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Trieste
    Posts
    250
    Helped
    38 / 38
    Points
    2,946
    Level
    12
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Does earthing reduce electricity bill

    No
    It is simply to protect the equipment and users.
    It has absolutely no relationship with power consumption.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Earth conductor is attached to the body of equipment which has no power in normal working.
    If something malfunction and body is connected to live then that earth cable sinks the power to the ground to protect the equipment the user from Electric shock
    It is for safety of equipment and the user so can not contribute in anyway in reduction of electric consumption

  3. #3
    Banned
    Points: 2,204, Level: 10

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    INDIA
    Posts
    272
    Helped
    7 / 7
    Points
    2,204
    Level
    10

    Re: Does earthing reduce electricity bill

    OK, in my house there is internal earth wire but not connected to earth due to which the digital electricity meter is running fast/indicator is blinking.
    some one told from board it is due to leakage current

  4. #4
    Full Member level 5
    Points: 2,946, Level: 12
    Achievements:
    7 years registered Created Blog entry

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Trieste
    Posts
    250
    Helped
    38 / 38
    Points
    2,946
    Level
    12
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Does earthing reduce electricity bill

    Well if earth wire is not connected to earth it means it is open so no way can contribute to what you say leakage current.
    As far as working of your meter is concerned I can not comment as I do not know what type of meter it is.
    But be sure about two things as per my knowledge
    1. Earth wire draws current only in case of failure of equipment and that is a safety thing.
    2. Earth wire going no where is like open circuit.
    If possible just switch off all your appliances and check the behavior of meter

    •   Alt17th June 2016, 15:18

      advertising

        
       

  5. #5
    Banned
    Points: 2,204, Level: 10

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    INDIA
    Posts
    272
    Helped
    7 / 7
    Points
    2,204
    Level
    10

    Re: Does earthing reduce electricity bill

    Hello italy,

    If possible just switch off all your appliances and check the behavior of meter
    I have done this from my house to meter there is ~40meters wire it is a problem may be due to age/old or digital meter itself at open load circuit the led was blinking.

  6. #6
    Full Member level 5
    Points: 2,946, Level: 12
    Achievements:
    7 years registered Created Blog entry

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Trieste
    Posts
    250
    Helped
    38 / 38
    Points
    2,946
    Level
    12
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Does earthing reduce electricity bill

    Hi
    40 meter is large length and it may be due to this cable losses itself.
    As if cable is not have good quality conductors it can be source of losses itself and large length can make situation worsen.
    So just check if it is copper conductor or some else mettle is used.
    I do not know if it would be possible for you but replace the cable with good copper conductor cable.

  7. #7
    Banned
    Points: 2,204, Level: 10

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    INDIA
    Posts
    272
    Helped
    7 / 7
    Points
    2,204
    Level
    10

    Re: Does earthing reduce electricity bill

    So just check if it is copper conductor or some else mettle is used.
    It is single wire aluminum with insulation.

  8. #8
    Full Member level 5
    Points: 2,946, Level: 12
    Achievements:
    7 years registered Created Blog entry

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Trieste
    Posts
    250
    Helped
    38 / 38
    Points
    2,946
    Level
    12
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Does earthing reduce electricity bill

    So I think we have caught the culprit.
    Unfortunately you are using worst possible power cable from my point of view.
    This bad cable coupled with the long length is contributing to the losses which you are saying leakage and confusing it with earth leakage.

    •   Alt17th June 2016, 15:45

      advertising

        
       

  9. #9
    Banned
    Points: 2,204, Level: 10

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    INDIA
    Posts
    272
    Helped
    7 / 7
    Points
    2,204
    Level
    10

    Re: Does earthing reduce electricity bill

    So I think we have caught the culprit.
    Unfortunately you are using worst possible power cable from my point of view.
    Hello,
    all people use al wire here and the over head line is also aluminium.
    what is the resistance change in copper and aluminium.?

    •   Alt17th June 2016, 15:49

      advertising

        
       

  10. #10
    Advanced Member level 4
    Points: 7,414, Level: 20
    Achievements:
    7 years registered

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    1,029
    Helped
    365 / 365
    Points
    7,414
    Level
    20

    Re: Does earthing reduce electricity bill

    Cable losses cannot increase the power consumption. You can see the wire as a resistor: increasing the current, the voltage drop across it increases. In this case appliances consuming more current will see a voltage drop that is will be supplied by a voltage less than that of the net. The cable losses have to be limited not to have excessive temperature rise of the cable itself, using wires of proper size. By the way, Aluminium is a good conductor even if copper is better: this means the required size of a wire made by copper will be less with respected to the size of a Aluminium wire carrying the same current. However this has nothing to do with the high power consumption you are experiencing.
    Of course the cable itself could be the cause of the leakage.

    First of all, are you sure the meter is working properly ?
    If yes, it seems you have some leakage of one of you appliance. Try to disconnect them one at a time to discover if one is causing the problem.
    Take into account that a leakage current could flows through the walls or a tap that can act as a more or less good ground.

    However if your main net is protected by a differential switch, a leakage towards the ground, higher than 20 mA (or a value like this, according to the regulation of your country) will cause the switch to break.

    You said the indicator is blinking: what does it mean ?

    The internal earth wire of your house is connected at one end to the appliances, but to the other end is left completly unconnected or is connected to something else ?
    Last edited by albbg; 17th June 2016 at 22:44.

  11. #11
    Super Moderator
    Points: 227,372, Level: 100
    Awards:
    1st Helpful Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Bochum, Germany
    Posts
    39,182
    Helped
    11970 / 11970
    Points
    227,372
    Level
    100

    Re: Does earthing reduce electricity bill

    If you actually observe the meter counting pulses, I would expect a normal reason in a first order, some energy consuming device you are not aware of. If possible disconnect individual circuits to find out what it is.

    You can also determine the exact amount of leakage power by reading the meter.

  12. #12
    Banned
    Points: 2,204, Level: 10

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    INDIA
    Posts
    272
    Helped
    7 / 7
    Points
    2,204
    Level
    10

    Re: Does earthing reduce electricity bill

    First of all, are you sure the meter is working properly ?
    If yes, it seems you have some leakage of one of you appliance. Try to disconnect them one at a time to discover if one is causing the problem.
    Take into account that a leakage current could flows through the walls or a tap that can act as a more or less good ground.
    If you actually observe the meter counting pulses, I would expect a normal reason in a first order, some energy consuming device you are not aware of. If possible disconnect individual circuits to find out what it is.

    Hello,
    I have switch off the MCB and open the circuit supply by pulling out fuse.
    so, you can see there is only open wire of supply i.e. of few decade meters.

    the led blinking mean there is 3200imp/KWH is blink after few sec .
    so, it mean that load is there of high rating i think meter is faulty because there is one more meter which is on higher load but it led blink very far interval and result bill is also very low.

    - - - Updated - - -

    However if your main net is protected by a differential switch, a leakage towards the ground, higher than 20 mA (or a value like this, according to the regulation of your country) will cause the switch to break.
    what is it?
    i have never seen this in my and other people house here we use only MCB and Fuse.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The internal earth wire of your house is connected at one end to the appliances, but to the other end is left completely unconnected or is connected to something else ?
    hello,
    all appliance are two pin mean live and neutral like tube light,led light,fan, tv, fridges is on 3 pin which is connected to stabilizer there is internal earth in wall but now i will connect it to earth properly.


    You can also determine the exact amount of leakage power by reading the meter.
    I have just guess for few minutes it was working on no load during a 10 hours it takes 7 unit on few load which is very large.

    in past few months back there was analog meter dial which was giving right information.
    i have complain about it there will be sub meter in parallel to it to check the fault after day tomorrow or soon.

  13. #13
    Advanced Member level 4
    Points: 7,414, Level: 20
    Achievements:
    7 years registered

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    1,029
    Helped
    365 / 365
    Points
    7,414
    Level
    20

    Re: Does earthing reduce electricity bill

    Quote Originally Posted by RITESH KAKKAR View Post
    what is it?
    i have never seen this in my and other people house here we use only MCB and Fuse.
    A differential switch is a circuit breaker that senses the current umbalance between the two wires of the main. If no leakage is present the current goes through the two wires with same amplitude and opposite direction, in this case the current is balanced and the swicth is ON. If, instead, the leakage to ground exceed a given level (in Italy 20 mA, in other countries 30 mA) the switch immedialtly goes OFF breaking the circuit. I think it's called RCD or RCBB (Residual Current Circuit Breaker)
    This is useful, for instance, in case a person came in contact with a wire of the main line, so that he will carry the current from that wire to the ground through his body. This leakage to be dangerous has been evaluated into 20 mA (or 30 mA): the threshold of the switch.

  14. #14
    Banned
    Points: 2,204, Level: 10

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    INDIA
    Posts
    272
    Helped
    7 / 7
    Points
    2,204
    Level
    10

    Re: Does earthing reduce electricity bill

    A differential switch is a circuit breaker that senses the current umbalance between the two wires of the main. If no leakage is present the current goes through the two wires with same amplitude and opposite direction, in this case the current is balanced and the swicth is ON. If, instead, the leakage to ground exceed a given level (in Italy 20 mA, in other countries 30 mA) the switch immedialtly goes OFF breaking the circuit. I think it's called RCD or RCBB (Residual Current Circuit Breaker)
    This is useful, for instance, in case a person came in contact with a wire of the main line, so that he will carry the current from that wire to the ground through his body. This leakage to be dangerous has been evaluated into 20 mA (or 30 mA): the threshold of the switch.
    ok, thanks i have listen of it first time here we use MCB .
    please tell more about AL wire and CU wire chemistry so, so that it can easily map in mind for saving power.

  15. #15
    Super Moderator
    Points: 227,372, Level: 100
    Awards:
    1st Helpful Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Bochum, Germany
    Posts
    39,182
    Helped
    11970 / 11970
    Points
    227,372
    Level
    100

    Re: Does earthing reduce electricity bill

    please tell more about AL wire and CU wire chemistry
    Has nothing to do with chemistry, just physical properties. Al resistivity is 65 percent higher, will be compensated by using thicker wire for the same current rating. So normally cable losses are about the same for aluminium and copper wire. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...d_conductivity

  16. #16
    Banned
    Points: 2,204, Level: 10

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    INDIA
    Posts
    272
    Helped
    7 / 7
    Points
    2,204
    Level
    10

    Re: Does earthing reduce electricity bill

    hello,
    what this figure say?

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ng_diagram.svg

    - - - Updated - - -

    A differential switch is a circuit breaker that senses the current umbalance between the two wires of the main. If no leakage is present the current goes through the two wires with same amplitude and opposite direction, in this case the current is balanced and the swicth is ON.
    Hello,
    How does it sense is there any op amp in it?
    can this will work in DC too?
    here generally electrician fit the electricity in house i think they are not capable/educated too much to find or drawn circuit well.
    i am am a beginner so, i cant make mistake in it.

  17. #17
    Full Member level 5
    Points: 2,946, Level: 12
    Achievements:
    7 years registered Created Blog entry

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Trieste
    Posts
    250
    Helped
    38 / 38
    Points
    2,946
    Level
    12
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Does earthing reduce electricity bill

    Hi
    I think we are confusing two things
    When we talk about Cable losses of Al and Copper if both have the same size then Aluminium wire will be more lossy and will contribute to the losses.
    Aluminum wire used for Power Distribution is big source of Line losses at LT circuits.
    Cable losses are particularly high with the high current drawing systems.
    Can leakage current from an equipment which can drive the meter is not felt at all by the user and is not affecting the performance of the equipment? I can not believe this

  18. #18
    Banned
    Points: 2,204, Level: 10

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    INDIA
    Posts
    272
    Helped
    7 / 7
    Points
    2,204
    Level
    10

    Re: Does earthing reduce electricity bill

    how should i understand because i have never touch things in deeper?

  19. #19
    Full Member level 5
    Points: 2,946, Level: 12
    Achievements:
    7 years registered Created Blog entry

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Trieste
    Posts
    250
    Helped
    38 / 38
    Points
    2,946
    Level
    12
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Does earthing reduce electricity bill

    http://www.calculator.net/voltage-dr...es=5&x=58&y=19

    Just have a look at this link

    It may not solve the issue but it may answer few of your questions

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hi
    Now I have a related question which arise from the same discussion
    In normal cases two wires start from meter one is phase which travels through the whole house and the other is called neutral which is common for all the house and ends up at the neutral of meter which goes to the neutral conductor berried properly in neutral pit.
    Electric meter works only if current starts from meter and sinks through the neutral of Electric meter.
    If the current sinks at some else ground pit instead of Neutral pit will Electric meter work?
    I am assuming different earth and neutral pits which are not connected with each other

    •   Alt20th June 2016, 09:50

      advertising

        
       

  20. #20
    Super Moderator
    Points: 62,559, Level: 61
    Achievements:
    7 years registered
    Awards:
    2nd Helpful Member
    betwixt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Aberdyfi, West Wales, UK
    Posts
    10,370
    Helped
    3348 / 3348
    Points
    62,559
    Level
    61

    Re: Does earthing reduce electricity bill

    I will attempt to summarize:

    1. Aluminium (Aluminum) is a good conductor but not quite as good as copper.
    2. The losses in a cable are proportional to the cross section area of the cable. (at least for domestic power distribution purposes)
    3. To make up for the extra loss in Aluminium, a larger cross section cable is normally used, this makes the loss the same as a smaller section copper cable.

    Almost all losses are due to the current (NOT the voltage) flowing through the cable. Ohms Law tells us the voltage dropped along a cable is (V=I*R), so a lower resistance gives less voltage drop for a given current. The resistance depends on the factors listed above.

    Regarding differential circuit breakers:

    1. Current flows around a loop, it needs a path to return to the power source. In domestic wiring there are two power wires, one is feeding the other is the return path.
    2. The load (your house appliances) sit between the two wires.
    3. Although your appliances may draw different currents, it all has to flow in and out through those two wires.
    4. It follows that the current in the two wires should be identical, it is the same current on its journey in and journey back to source.
    5. If you monitor and subtract the currents in the two wires, the result should always be zero.

    Now consider what happens if you introduce another source of power in your home or more likely, leak some of the power away down a different path, for example down to Earth. The current down the two wires is no longer equal, some of it is taking a different route and going somewhere else. When the breaker subtracts the curents in the two wires, the resut is no longer zero. This is how it detects a fault has occurred in the wiring. A tiny amount of leakage is normal, it is caused by capacitance in interference filters or moisture in the air but it will usually be <1mA. The differential trips are therefore set to allow a small amount of leakage before they operate, in my country they are normally designed to trip at 30mA but it may vary from one country's regulations to another.

    The Earth wire is only for protection, it should never be connected directly to other power wires or it would instantly open the trip. It's purpose it to make sure anything electrically conductive that you can touch does not have a dangerous voltage on it. If there was a fault and you did touch it, the current flowing through you would open the trip and hopefully save your life.

    Brian.
    PLEASE - no friends requests or private emails, I simply don't have time to reply to them all.
    It's better to share your questions and answers on Edaboard so we can all benefit from each others experiences.

--[[ ]]--