Friendly ARM x BeagleBoard

Hi i want some sugestions o which one is worth more, BeagleBoard or FriendlyARM.

The first, got a very new OMAP, and cost 150USD

The seconde one got an old ARM9, comes with a touch+lcd and cost 85USD.

Any comments?

Thank you!!

Depends on what you want to do. with Friendly ARM, you can have access to 100s of free applications with source code, with OMAP it will be a bit more difficult. The interfaces on Friendly ARM are very easy to manage and you have almost everything you need for a small computer but you don't have DVI and modern Cortex A8 processor.

How different is to deal with a cortex-a8 and a ARM9? How much of the knology of using an ARM9 can be reused for Cortex-A8?

The new Beagleboard-xM is even better:
BeagleBoard.org - hardware-xM

It all comes down to what you want to do with it. Does one have I/O that you need but the other doesn't? Are you going to run Linux or some other RTOS? You know you need, but we don't.

I just ordered a Coretx A8 board from China:
**broken link removed** which I like much more than OMAP3530 based product since it has much more IO available for my own electronics.

Bygel is good if you want to make a single board computer and don't want to make anything connected to it, Samsung based boards are great for connecting your own modules and have great potentials to use them in future applications.

When it comes to source code, as long as you write your code under Linux, your code can be easily transfered to the new device, but if you use special functions of the FriendlyArm or OMAP, then you can not move them back and forth that easy.

I specially like the new board from Samsung because it comes with Android 2.1 support which I am hoping to use in my future products.

Actually it is a ARM11 and not Cortex A8 but anyway..

Bygel is good if you want to make a single board computer and don't want to make anything connected to it, Samsung based boards are great for connecting your own modules and have great potentials to use them in future applications.

Click to expand...

Why?

It all comes down to what you want to do with it. Does one have I/O that you need but the other doesn't? Are you going to run Linux or some other RTOS? You know you need, but we don't.

Click to expand...

The application is not well defined.. just wondering which is wroth more cost/benefit. Any application examples that you woukd recomend on or other?
And i cant even find some ectronic store with beagleboard on stock... Any idea about that?

Thank you!

Sorry, I sent the wrong link:
**broken link removed**

And here are the IOs available on that board:
. 50-Pin GPIO connector, 50-Pin data and address BUS connector
. Four serial ports (COM1,COM2 are 5-wire, COM3,COM4 are 3-wire , the four ports not only can be output from DB9
but not only can output as TTL level by pin header, COM3 and COM4 also can be RS485 output by pin header )
. SD/MMC interface (supports 3.3V and 1.8V logic voltage)
. 24bit LCD, two kinds of LCD/Touch Screen interface including 4-wire touch Screen.
**broken link removed**

---------- Post added at 19:48 ---------- Previous post was at 19:31 ----------

Sink0 said:

Why?

Click to expand...

Bygel does not have that many GPIOs available for those who want to experiment with it. it is a nice board when using it for SW development, but if you want to use it to build a HW/SW platform based on it, it is kind of useless.

If you are looking for OMAP based architecture, I would go for the Panda board:


One major problem with any TI based product is that TI does not share the TRM with 'ordinary' people. Many part of the Technical Reference Manuals are not open to public unless you know someone who can get one for you.

The panda board is very interesting too!! Actualy better than beagle board, with a better procesor and wireless... But it is out of stock too....And what d you mean about 50 data and address bus on you board? Do you know ehat exactly is the System Bus on frindly ARM? And for these boards, do you need a Jtag cable?

Thank you!

I quickly went through each board and created this summary. It's possible that I have mistakes. I didn't include audio and other things because too many things to compare....I leave that to you to do.

BeagleBoard = USD $149, TI OMAP3530 at 720MHz, 256MB DDR SDRAM, 256MB NAND-Flash, 1 USB, RS232 Header, DVI-D, S-Video, 78.74mm x 76.2mm.
http://beagleboard.org/static/BBSRM_latest.pdf

BeagleBoard-xM = USD $179, TI DM3730 (A8) at 1GHz, 512MB DDR SDRAM, microSD Slot, 4 USB, RS232 DB9, 10/100 Ethernet, DVI-D, S-Video, 78.74mm x 76.2mm.
http://beagle.s3.amazonaws.com/design/xM-A/BB_xM_SRM_A2_01.pdf

PandaBoard = USD $174, TI OMAP4430 (A8) at 1GHz, 1GB DDR2 SDRAM, SD Slot, 2 USB, RS232 DB9, 10/100 Ethernet, Bluetooth / 802.11n / FM, DVI-D OR HDMI, Composite Header, 114.3mm x 101.6mm.
http://pandaboard.org/sites/default/files/board_reference/EA1/Panda_Board_Spec_REVEA1_04.pdf

S5PC100-II = USD $???, Samsung K9F2G08 (A8) at 833MHz, 256MB DDR SDRAM, 256MB NAND-Flash, 2MB NOR-Flash, SD Slot, SDHC Slot, 5 USB, 4 RS232 DB9, 10/100 Ethernet, HDMI, VGA, Composite, 200mm x 140mm.
**broken link removed**
No Online Manual

Android6410 = USD $160, Samsung S3C6410 (ARM11) at 667MHz, 128MB DDR SDRAM, 256MB NAND-Flash, SD Slot, 2 USB, RS232 DB9, 10/100 Ethernet, Composite, 65.55mm x 52.85mm.
**broken link removed**
**broken link removed**

see also www.arm9board.com for ARM9,ARM11 boards

7rots51 said:

see also www.arm9board.com for ARM9,ARM11 boards

Click to expand...

the link does not work, I guess it was www.arm9board.net?

Enlightenment said:

I quickly went through each board and created this summary. It's possible that I have mistakes. I didn't include audio and other things because too many things to compare....I leave that to you to do.

BeagleBoard = USD $149, TI OMAP3530 at 720MHz, 256MB DDR SDRAM, 256MB NAND-Flash, 1 USB, RS232 Header, DVI-D, S-Video, 78.74mm x 76.2mm.
http://beagleboard.org/static/BBSRM_latest.pdf

BeagleBoard-xM = USD $179, TI DM3730 (A8) at 1GHz, 512MB DDR SDRAM, microSD Slot, 4 USB, RS232 DB9, 10/100 Ethernet, DVI-D, S-Video, 78.74mm x 76.2mm.
http://beagle.s3.amazonaws.com/design/xM-A/BB_xM_SRM_A2_01.pdf

PandaBoard = USD $174, TI OMAP4430 (A8) at 1GHz, 1GB DDR2 SDRAM, SD Slot, 2 USB, RS232 DB9, 10/100 Ethernet, Bluetooth / 802.11n / FM, DVI-D OR HDMI, Composite Header, 114.3mm x 101.6mm.
http://pandaboard.org/sites/default/files/board_reference/EA1/Panda_Board_Spec_REVEA1_04.pdf

S5PC100-II = USD $???, Samsung K9F2G08 (A8) at 833MHz, 256MB DDR SDRAM, 256MB NAND-Flash, 2MB NOR-Flash, SD Slot, SDHC Slot, 5 USB, 4 RS232 DB9, 10/100 Ethernet, HDMI, VGA, Composite, 200mm x 140mm.
**broken link removed**
No Online Manual

Android6410 = USD $160, Samsung S3C6410 (ARM11) at 667MHz, 128MB DDR SDRAM, 256MB NAND-Flash, SD Slot, 2 USB, RS232 DB9, 10/100 Ethernet, Composite, 65.55mm x 52.85mm.
**broken link removed**
**broken link removed**

Click to expand...

Woa thanks thats helps a lot, but i cant find beagle board and Panda board anywhere to buy. Every electronic shop is out of stock...

the link does not work, I guess it was Embedded ARM9 and ARM11 Development kit, System on Modules

Click to expand...

Yea i had the same problem. They got good prices, is that shop trustfull?

Just one question, where can i find a Jtag cable for OMAPs?

What kind of problems if i want to run some high end ARM (A8, A9, ARM11) with no OS, at bare silicon?

Thank you!

Hi,
The JTAG interface with TI can be a problem. You can use any JTAG interface as long as your SW package support the JTAG interface and you can configure the OMAP properly.

I used to use TI's CodeComposer which is a nasty little piece of SW if you do not have the proper GEL file, but pretty nice to use if you have the right configuration file.

Using TI products without OS means you need to have access to full TRM (Technical Reference Manual) which is not open to the public for the OMAP4 series, but for OMAP3, you can find it on TI's web site, but believe me it is a monster to *****, I would really stick with the OS if you can, the trouble of making your code work under Linux is WAY too simple compare to learning all the internals of the TI products. Believe me, I worked 3,5 years for TI supporting OMAP2 and OMAP3 products and was part of the design team for OMAP4 (as a contractor).

For the Panda board, you can order one and receive it at the end of Nov. (11/21/2010 based on what DiGiKey told me).

Maybe you should start with the FriendlyARM, it has an excellent world wide community support, the SW is pretty straight forward to write and the SW interface is based on open source products, when you feel comfortable about the ARM environment, then move to ARM11 or Cortex Ax series. This way, you don't waste time chasing bugs and spend hours wasting your time figuring out things badly documented or not documented at all inside OMAP produtcs!

Good luck,
/Farhad

when you feel comfortable about the ARM environment

Click to expand...

What you mean about that? What kind of differences i am going to find? For now i just got experience with uCUs as ColdFire, PIC32..., but nothing more powerful than that.

I guess i will follow your advice, but is there a huge difference between ARM11 and ARM9? Or they are just the same with different Frequencies? how about to Cortex-A8? Any advice for a compiler (free one) for FriendlyARM's processor?

Completely OFFTOPIC, but how do i load the OS image on friendlyARM? At Beagle and Panda Board i know it would be possible with a SD Card.

Which is the Jatag used with OMAP? Will a Jlink work with it?

And finally, on every description i read of the frindlyARM i read i can use the SytemBUS. Is that bus some sort of fast speed parallel bus as a PCI (but for ARMs)? If yes any idea of the Specs? If notm, what is it?

Thank you!

>>>is there a huge difference between ARM11 and ARM9? Or they are just the same with different Frequencies?

Each newer ARM family usually adds new instructions and some speed optimization. Usually there is a perception of faster because almost all newer processors run at a higher clock rate. The ARM core and chips are hard to compare in a simple conversation, because since parts of the ARM cores can be enabled / disabled or increased / decreased when the IC vendor actually embeds the core into the silicon design. The IC vendor has lots of options like various sizes of data and instruction cache and even the option to make them zero. Some chips have floating point processors but others don't. Some have additional features like ARM9E vs ARM9...where I think the ARM9E is equal to a ARM9TDMI. Some have Java instructions others don't. Each family can have different instruction sets, like ARM + Thumb compared to Thumb2 only. So you can see, just a crap-load of variations which makes it difficult to easily compare in a conversation.

My view is (which could be wrong):
- ARM11 core is kind of a dead ARM family, because IC vendors have moved over to the higher-end Cortex A8 & A9.
- ARM7 core, though great in its day, is dieing, because IC vendors moved over to Cortex M3 and few to M4 which is a superset of M3.
ARM architecture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

>>>how about to Cortex-A8? Any advice for a compiler (free one) for FriendlyARM's processor?

I don't own one, but since most of those boards run Linux, then likely you would be developing Linux code and using its tools.

>>>how do i load the OS image on friendlyARM? At Beagle and Panda Board i know it would be possible with a SD Card.

Newer ARMs usually have some internal bootrom that checks for memory attached to different types of peripherals, and if it finds a unique pattern at the beginning of it, will then download a program and execute it. Most vendors have setup loading from multiple peripherals, then the bootroom looks through one type of peripheral at a time (serial-flash, then SD, then nand-flash), then eventually get down to a loop where it will try to communicate via RS232 or USB so a user can download through it. All this varies from vendor to vendor. For Linux boards, you don't need to worry about these things, because there is some form of linux bootloader is the first program that runs, thus you only need to worry about linux software.

>>>Which is the Jtag used with OMAP?

Good question. I assume TI tools, especially for the DSP side of the chip, but I would guess generic USB-to-JTAG devices would work with it. I think for most people, they wouldn't use it because most development would be at the Linux level. Since I haven't done this type of development, I really should stop here and let someone else answer it correctly.

>>>Will a JLINK work with it?

I assume yes. By the way, there is now a very cheap JLINK-EDU education (Non-commercial) version. I asked, and they said it the same as JLINK, but in a white case with the mandatory limitation that you aren't suppose to do commercial development with it. It is targeted to college and home hobbyists. See Segger.com.

>>>i read of the frindlyARM i read i can use the SytemBUS. Is that bus some sort of fast speed parallel bus as a PCI (but for ARMs)? If yes any idea of the Specs? If notm, what is it?

No such thing as a standard memory bus on ARM IC chips. The chips that have an external parallel memory bus are ALL implemented differently by each IC vendor. Remember the ARM is just a licensed CPU core and nothing more, so all the peripherals and buses attached to the core are created by the IC vendor. Yes, some vendors have glued a PCI bus to the ARM core, but very few have done it, so don't expect it. Almost every ARM these days have support for either/both SPI and I2C, thus is why you see serial-flash and SD slots supported in almost every ARM chip. The older SD slot (not SDHC) mandates support for SPI bus, which is why you see SD supported on most ARM chips.

Hope this helps. Likely I could've forgot something, but then again this is a blog, not a book.

---------- Post added at 23:57 ---------- Previous post was at 23:51 ----------

.
.
.

When it comes down to new ARM boards being released, especially COOL or CHEAP ARM boards, you better order them ASAP, because they can go from stock to long back order in a very short period of time. Earlier this year, I delayed buying an ARM board by a week, and it went from stock to 7 week back order, arg, thus I never ordered it. The most popular boards, you are waiting in a big queue, so likely the longer you wait to do the order, the back order will just keep slipping out there because other people are ordering the board while you are waiting.

When I heard about the STM32VLDISCOVERY board, I immedialy ordered it, because I knew it would sell out quickly. There is stock in europe, but almost none in USA. I remember not long ago that DigiKey and Mouser in USA had many hundreds of them.

.
.
.

Woa thats was a very good piece of information!! haha thank you very much!!

Just a question, why the hell they do not give the TRM to every one? Its not reasonable....

Newer AR
Ms usually have some internal bootrom that checks for memory attached to different types of peripherals, and if it finds a unique pattern at the beginning of it, will then download a program and execute it. Most vendors have setup loading from multiple peripherals, then the bootroom looks through one type of peripheral at a time (serial-flash, then SD, then nand-flash), then eventually get down to a loop where it will try to communicate via RS232 or USB so a user can download through it. All this varies from vendor to vendor. For Linux boards, you don't need to worry about these things, because there is some form of linux bootloader is the first program that runs, thus you only need to worry about linux software.

Click to expand...

Any idea if the ARM placed at FriendlyARm got this feature?

No such thing as a standard memory bus on ARM IC chips. The chips that have an external parallel memory bus are ALL implemented differently by each IC vendor

Click to expand...

So just to make sure, this SytemBus is intended to be used with external memory?

And do you have any sugestion about how to start learning to work ARM processors for H/W and S/W developing? I am assuming that developing for Linux on a OMAP would be almost the same as devloping for a PC, so probably that would not be very useful, but i might be wrong. Or there is no such possibility and i would have to learn each specific implementation of each vendor? Assuming that i am already a C and ASM programmer (Although the ASM instuctions vary). Or all the applications of the world make use of some sort of standard OS (as Linux and Windows) with those Processors and having this kind of knowledge would be useless? How about RTOS, any standar solution to be used with those processors? Or usually users make use of Linux with some sort of RT path as RTAI?

I live on Brazil, but i am on Europe right now for a project, i will get 3 or 4 STM32 Discovery boards in a few days, i did not order it yet, becouse i want to make good use of shipping and get few more stuff. There still 1k on stock, do you think i should hurry?

Is there any 7" or 10" TFT LCD (16M color) for interface to beagle board?

Can ubuntu 10.10 installed on beagle board ? if this is true then we have a small SBC and we can run many applications on beagle board + ubuntu 10.10 linux OS!

Concerning the Segger JLink (USB to ARM JTAG), I found the file "ScriptBeagleBoard_OMAP3530.JLinkScript" in one of the Jlink software directories that I just now installed. I don't know if it works, because I don't own that Beagle Board. I'm not sure how well JLink will work during Linux code development, so don't buy it until you get more feedback from someone else. If you plan to do lower-end ARM chips that can't run Linux, then JLink is great, especially the JLink EDU model for home and college use.

IT depends on what you want to do. If you need power then go for the beagle board, if you want screen and IOs go for the ARM9 board. They are both very good, but the beagle board is not so easy to interface with compared with the FriendlyARM IMHO.

how about the coreboard of dm3730, and the mainboard can support lvds LCD and hdmi video output?
**broken link removed**
from link:

**broken link removed**

The core board of omap3 dm3730, board size is 5.7x4.3x0.2cm

OMAP3_DM3730_core_baord_-1

the main board is function board, with wifi,bluetooth,fm radio, gps,3G module(gprs, edge,cdma,wcdma,td-scdma,evdo,hspa),HDMI,SD CARD,OTG,USB HOST,LVDS LCD display, touch screen, ethernet

OMAP3_DM3730_Main_baord_-2

---------- Post added at 08:04 ---------- Previous post was at 08:01 ----------

for omap4 4430, i think it's a bit difficuit to SMT! the chip has not big footprint, only pop footprint!