How to import polygones in Altium

Hello,

A simple question which I can't solve from years - how can I import polygones in Altium.

Notice that when importing DXF or gerbers in Altium we always finish with tracks. Then we have to convert the tracks to polygones but in case we have very complex shapes converting the tracks to polygones becomes real challenge.

If we use planes in the DXF they convert to region in Altium which is fine for me, but planes in DXF could have only 3 or 4 points.

Till now the only one working solution to convert DXF into polygones is to pass through ORCAD:
1. Import DXF in ORCAD. Closed shapes appear like polygones
2. Import ORCAD in Altium. The closed contours in DXF appear like polygones.

In short my question is - how I can import into Altium directly (or by using some conversion tool) polygones? If I draw multiple closed shapes in AutoCad or DWGEditor and save them like DXF how can these shapes appear like polygines in Altium without excessive manual interaction and work (like select tracks & convert to polygones)?

Thank you

This is a big limitation on Altium. When they were developing the platform, they seem to have totally ignored the needs for RF and high-speed. Unfortunately, there is no simple solution and I wouldn't expect one from them any time soon since they are so focused on fpga and embedded co-design and data management (all great things) but to put it bluntly they have totally ignored RF and high-speed and have a lot of catching up to do in these areas.

Thank you,

I was just wondering am I doing something wrong but seems that the problem is totally in the Altium. Maybe 2 years ago I posted this problem in the official Altium forum but there is obviously no reaction. For sure by keeping in mind how simple is this task in ORCAD I can't stop searching some similar solution for Altium.

Actually there is one "cheating" way - the imported tracks should be placed on some routing layer and then by using the feature "Edit/Select/Connected copper" you can get the selected the whole shape at once (which is extremely painful for complex shapes). Then using "Tools/Convert/Create polygones from selected primitives" will produce the desired polygone. The already selected tracks should be deleted.

Of course the best way is to pass the data through ORCAD - you get automatically all shapes converted to proper polygons.

I'm also looking for some DXF to MAX or DXF to PCBDOC convertor which could probably solve the problem

Just to say that the problem was solved by directly writing the data into PcbDoc format. It took me some time but now I can write tracks, polygones, copper fills (and even assign nets to them) directly in native Altium format from my PC program. Probably the next step is to create some DXF - to - Altium converter program.

Hello luben111,

could you please explain in detail, by whyt you mean by "directly writing the data into Pcbdoc format"?

I too desire a way to import DXF polygons into Altium.

Hi,

You can generate Altium file according to your needs. For example you want to generate one Altium file with 10 polygones (copper fill) with specific dimensions, to assign each polygon to some net and to pass tracks. If you can mathematically define the PCB design then you can generate from a program the whole PCB design and write it in proper ALtium format.

The secret in this approach is to use ASCI text Altium files (in Altium Save as - PcbDoc ASCI format). If you open one such file with text editor you'll see how easy is to write anything you want. Of course this requires from you to be equally good in Altium and in PC programming.

In short the Altium ASCI text file consists from:
1. Header (you can copy it from some extremely simple PcbDoc file)
2. Definition area - where you define nets, polygone names, etc.
3. Description area - where you put the descriptions of the polygones, tracks, etc.

---------- Post added at 06:27 ---------- Previous post was at 06:22 ----------

Speaking about importing DXF in Altium the best way I got is:
1. make the DXF in Autocad, SolidWorks, Camtastic. If you use CorelDraw you need to pass the DXF through the mentioned programs otherwise it will fail to import
2. Import the DXF into Altium. You'll see that the DXF will become converted into bunch of lines (which is not polygon!)
3. It's very important to import the DXF into some routing layer (TOP, BOTTOM or some new routing layer).
4. Click on some line of the imported shape and then Select/Select phisical copper to select the whole line.
5. Tools/Convert/Convert selected lines to polygone
6. While the lines are selected - delete them (press DEL). Only the polygone will stay

Other possible way is - Import DXF in ORCAD and save as MAX file. Then import the MAX file in ALtium

Re: How to import polygons in Altium

Thanks for the clever idea of the ASCII files...

But converting lines into a polygon does not make a filled polygon. It does, however, make some strange draw-around-nets outline that is not a pour nor a fill. I did what you said a few days ago and got these unacceptable results.

Maybe there are two ways to convert lines to polygons, and I chose poorly?

Hi,
If you have problems with the converted polygones (import from DXF) you probably have something wrong in the DXF file. I can gurantee that if the DXF is properly created in Altium you'll see exactly the same shapes. I would recommend to use for generating DXF AutoCad or SolidWorks. In case you don't have them do the following - export the shapes in PLT (HPGL format) and then import into Altium Camtastic. Once you see them in Camtastic you can export them into proper DXF. More of the programs that generate DXF don't work properly when importing to Altium.

Once converted to polygones you can make them filled with copper or hatched - it's up to you. You need only to change the property of the polygon.

No, you didn't chose the wrong way to import the DXF, you simply have not fully correct DXF (or not acceptable from Altium). I suffered many years by trying to export DXF from Corel until I realized that Corel is adding "splines" objects to DXF which are totally unacceptable. The best DXF programs I know are AutoCad and SolidWorks

Re: How to import polygons in Altium

I only wish it was that easy. To double-check, I made a DXF just now with AutoCAD 2011 that includes two shapes: the first using the rectangle command for a closed polyline, and the second using the polygon command. I even filled the rectangle in AutoCAD using the hatching feature to see if that made a difference. I then imported the DXF into Altium, and I get the same as always: tracks with zero width, connected in the shape of a rectangle or polygon. First, 0mil tracks fail DRC, and secondly, an outline made of tracks does not a polygon make.

So, while your guarantee was convincing, it was in vain. and I am sad. :- (

Well, when I said "easy" I meant if you made everything correctly. One tip - when you save the AutoCad you need to save it with some older revision of DXF otherwise Altium will get garbage.

I would advise you to first import the DXF into Camtastic, if you see everything OK, export it from Camtastic as DXF which will guarantee you'll get the same shapes in Altium PCB

If you still doubt that it's impossible to import DXF in Altium, please attach a DXF file with some higehr complexity and I'll send you the converted Altium file and also what could be wrong with the DXF

Filling the rectangles in AutoCad (hatching) could only make things worse

Re: How to import polygons in Altium

I do appreciate the assistance. My AutoCAD dxf were saved in an older format already, I had figured that should help avoid these kinds of problems. So, I took your suggestion and went to import the DXF into Camtastic. You can also import DWG into Camtastic doc, and I did that as well, and there was no complaint from Altium.

Then I exported the cam doc into DXF, and imported that DXF back into PCB doc, and still get tracks for outlines.

So then I decided to remove AutoCAD from the loop entirely, and just focus on DXF files. I created a blank Cam document, drew (placed) a polygon and rectangle, saved, and exported to DXF. A PCB document import of that Altium-generated DXF file still results in a series of tracks for outlines, not a polygon. :- (

Per your gracious request, I've attached the cam document and the DXF that Alitum created from it, to see if you can get polygons in your PCB layout instead of 0 width tracks.

I'll try to convert them.
The first problem I see is - in Camtastic the shapes look filled which is wrong! In Altium you can import ONLY LINES. In an hour I'll send you the converted file

You can see how the shapes appeared in Altium! See attached

Re: How to import polygons in Altium

luben111 said:

I'll try to convert them.
The first problem I see is - in Camtastic the shapes look filled which is wrong! In Altium you can import ONLY LINES. In an hour I'll send you the converted file

Click to expand...

haha, that's funny. So, I want a filled shape in Altium. I open Altium, draw a filled shape, and I am wrong? Actually I am not wrong, I found out today that it works just fine to import any of them, with any of my previous methods, since they all resulted in the same thing, tracks of zero width in the shape that I wanted.

I found I was doing it right the first time. What I overlooked was the radio buttons at the top of the polygon pour properties that says "solid" and "outline" (and "hatched"). When you create a pour from selected objects, you get a polygon pour that is of type, "outline", which I called before, "a series of tracks for outlines, not a polygon". Turns out it _is_ a polygon, but then there is one more step required to make it a 'normal' "solid" pour. I did not do this last step!! doh!

Even more better, once you have created such a thing in a PCB document, you can then copy and paste it into a footprint library, where it becomes a "region". So now I have the entire process worked out, DXF to footprint, which is something probably only an RF guy would want. In my case, AWR Microwave Office spits out DXF files of my complicated and precisely simulated RF layouts, and now I can make them "parts" in my Altium PCB projects for the rest of the design work.

Thanks all for the help, hopefully somebody reads this later and saves some time! Also thanks luben111; you put a lot of time into this for me, and I appreciate it.

P.S. I'm using version S09, maybe there were more DXF import problems in earlier versions.

Re: How to import polygons in Altium

Two years ago I complained about polygone import in the official Altium forum, it seems that they fixed the problem. In case anybody uses something before S09 he should follow my instructions.

Thank you thesank for pointing out this new feature in Altium, for sure it was not working before.

BTW, I tried to import your DXF in S09 Altium and it appeared as multiple lines. How you managed to make polygone from the lines (by using Tool/Convret/CreatePolygonFromSelectedPrimitives ?)

Re: How to import polygons in Altium

Oh, I thought I said. Once you get all the lines, go to Tools --> Polygon Pours and 'create from selected objects' (something like that, I'm desribing from memory). I think you figured it out.
Then you get a polygon that is "outline", so change the properties of the pour to "solid" (and unclick the "necks" and "islands" checkboxes for best results).