Laser printer for PCB question

diy photoplotter

Is the toner in laser printers opaque enough to block out UV light IF used with a laser transparency bought from a stationers, OR does the film have to be ‘special’ in order for it to work with photo board, i.e. does one HAVE to use the transparencies sold by electronics suppliers?

I hope to buy a laser printer soon and it would be easier/cheaper for me to just use the stuff they sell in the local shops rather than order it in, but will it work?

Alternatively, is there any way I can use an inkjet printer to produce transparencies suitable for use with photo board? I’ve tried ‘Jet Star’ for inkjet but it’s rubbish (well, with my printer at any rate). No matter what I try I can’t seem to get the ink opaque enough to work.

pcb laminating photoresist film

Hi,
Jet printer: no way (my opinion). About laser printer, the toner is not opaque enough, but you can work with it. You will have to determine the exposure time experimentally. You can obtain satisfactory results after few experiments. Because the toner is not opaque enough, an overexposure will eat your traces. An underexposure will leave unexposed areas. I think nobody cannot give you a general rule for this, because it depends on too many factors (the type of toner, the type of photoresist, film, etc.). Nevertheless, the best way to obtain excellent results is to use a photoplotter. That is the type of opacity you need in order to produce good pcbs.

laser photoplotter diy

I have a HP laserjet 1200 and I use it quite often to produce my PCB.
The rules I respect are:
1) Trace width minimum 0,5 mm
2) distance between traces : 0,5 mm minimum
3) Print in high quality mode
4) to print use semi matt paper, the one used some years ago to draw with ink, the trasparent one is not working well because the toner try to concentrate in drop on the surface instead to melt on the whole surface.
5) time to exposure 2 - 2,5 minutes, via test made before

Usually with these rules I have no problems also on the double face.

Mandi

aquarium pcb etching tanks machine how to

Thanks for the replies, this is a great place to learn!

Pisoiu, excuse my ignorance but what is a photoplotter?

modified laser printer for pcb

Hi,

As you can tell from the other posts, results can be erratic. Really, you have to find a combination that works together - printer, toner type and paper. I have...

Printer: Brother HL-760
Toner: Oringinal Brother Cartridges
Paper: Laserstar (very expensive) or 120gsm tracing paper

Using these items, I have successfully (and reproducably) produced cleanly etched traces down to 0.25mm width and 0.25mm spacing. MY UV unit is home made, double-sided, 4x 8w tubes per side (30cm x 20cm area). Board is presensitized microtrak. Everything is done DIY fashion. Method follows:

Step 1: Expose for 10 minutes per side
Step 2: Develope for 40 seconds in D.Soln at 25 C
Step 3: Spray Wash in deionized water (DW)
Step 4: Etch for about 10 minutes in E.Soln at 50 C
Step 5: Spray Wash in DW
Step 6: Strip Resist with Acetone, then DW
Step 7: Tin Plate in T.Soln for 30 minutes at 25 C
Step 8: Spray Wash in DW

Developing Solution
Heat DW to 50C. Dissolve 5g per 100ml of Seno Universal Developer. Allow to cool to 25C before use.

Etching Solution
Heat DW to 50C. Dissolve 100g per 500ml of Ammonium Persulfate. Add 5ml of Conc HCL.

Tin Plate Solution
Heat DW to 50C. Dissolve 0.9g per 10ml of Seno Tin Plate Crystals. Allow to cool to 25C before use.


Note that contact of the printed plan to the PCB is vitally important during exposure. Print so that the ink side goes towards the PCB and ensure it is *really* in flat contact. Any gap will give poor traces.

Cheers,
FoxyRick.

xylol laserjet transfers

Hi have the same experience as the oters writing answers. I have been using both a HP4L and are now using a Minolta/QMS magicolor 2200 desk laser to print. Using ordinary OH film for laser printers and makes 2 side psbs for circuits down to 0,5 mm in pin separation (have not needed to try smaller yet). However I think that some mm of spacing when routing makes the yield much better. The only problem seams to be that u need to print two OH films and stack them to get the black part black enough, for fine pith use pass marks far out on the oh film...

It takes some pcbs before you get all the timing correct but I canot understand why not more people do this at home, it takes just som 30 min to make a PCB and it gives great result. The only downside is drilling, its a pain, try to use as much smd as possible.

For developer you can use ordinary sodium hydroxide (caustic soda), much cheaper then the real thing.

One speedy way to etch is 1 part hydrogen peroxide (ca30%), 1part hydrochloric acid (30%) and 2 parts water. Not realy recomended for other then werry rough designs. This mixture gives a pch in about 10s but there are a lot of unhealty fumes and its rather hard to controll that you get an eaven result. It also makes funny marks in the kitchen sink if left ther for mor then seconds. Another problem with this is due to all the "internet bombs" lately its har to buy the peroxide the acid and acethon in the store now days...

Thera are several sites on the net describing the process in more detail, one is: https://www.electricstuff.co.uk/pcbs.html

re Me

laser pinter pcb 0.5mm

Hi,

Just a note about using sodium hydroxide as developer. It does do the job quickly, but the problem is that if you leave the board in just a little too long, it is *very* easily over-exposed, damaging the traces. In my experience, anyway. Also, you must buy chemical-grade sodium hydroxide. The cheap stuff often sold in hardware stores for cleaning drains really is quite impure - this might effect the results.

That's why I use the Seno stuff. It does cost more, but exposure times ten or even twenty times longer than recommended don't do much harm - it is *not* prone to over-exposure problems.

I would rather spend a bit more to eliminate any possible problems in the fabrication path, there are enough problems for a hobbyist as it is!

One thought though: sodium hydroxide may be OK for simpler, wider-trace designs as these won't be so problematic if over-exposure occurs.

Just my thoughs, others may disagree 8)

Cheers,
FoxyRick.

pcb laser printer brother

That was a really useful link, thanks!

I was interested to read that photocopies on tracing paper might give good results. ESR in the UK sell 'transparent spray' to render paper translucent so that it can be used with photo board. The catalogue mentions that it's 'ideal for photocopies'. Has anyone ever tried it? Would this give good results?

pcb best transparency film laser printer

Longfuse,
a photoplotter is a piece of machine used to produce extremely high resolution films (thousands dpi), used in professional PCB industry. in essence, the machine is quite similar with a normal plotter, but instead of colour pens installed in the printing head, it has a very thin light spot generator. As a substrate it does nou use paper, it uses photosensitive films, which, after exposure in the photoplotter are developed like a normal black-white film. The result is a film which is quite similar with a piece of film printed in a laser printer, but at a much higher resollution, and the black on that film is really black. you cannot see through it.

printer for pcb

I have also heard that is possible to transfer toner from paper directly to a coppered board with a method similar to that used for transfer images on t-shirt with an iron, and then proceed with Etching.
Do anybody have heard this also?

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Interesting spray, wounder how it works. However the paper used must be trasperent to UV light, that is not the same as transperent to the eye. I think that some diferent medias are useful, its just about testing. One example is that normal glas is not UV transparent but plexiglas is.

I also would agre that using sodium hydroxide not might give the same result as the developer you buy for PCBs but with som experimenting it works. I have also found a mixture that should overcome this, and the final result is stated to be the same as the stuff you buy but I have not tried it yet, 200cc of "water glass", 800cc of distilled water and 400g of sodium hydroxide, anyone done this?

I have almost all the pices for making PCBs but where to buy a heater for the etch tank. The normal aquarium ones does only heat up to 35-40 deg as I understand it and that would not be enough or???

re Me

laser pesticide & copper hydroxide combination

I ordered some of the 'transparent spray' today, so I should get it at the beginning of next week.

I'll do some testing and let you all know if it works. Long shot perhaps, but it's not that expensive so I'm willing to give it a go.

modified aquarium heater pcb etch

Why do you want to use the Lazer printer to print negatives for exposure? You can make great boards, including doublesided using the lazer printed page itself as the etch resist. I have done it for long time, with excellent results. All you need is "Coated paper" i.e. for high resolution printing, some acetone and your etch, ferric chloride or hydrogen peroxide. Reason for coated paper is simple. It allows for better release of the toner on your copper board.

To use: Print your artwork. 600dpi resolution is more than enough.
For bottom copper no need to mirror artwork. For Top copper must mirror artwork. Clean Copper board with steelwool and rinse and dry. Take artwork placing printed surface face down on copper. Take some cotton wool and wet with acetone. Rub on back of printed artwork. Let acetone evaporate from the paper. Place board with printed artwork now stuck to board in warm water for some minutes. Peel of the paper and ther is your board ready for etching.

Reason for the acetone and not hot iron on, if you transfer the artwork with a hot clothes iron (Melting the toner onto the copper) the copper board expands with heat under the iron and leads to inconsistency especially if you make doublesided boards!

Have fun!

Whacko.

photoboard 2 exposure uv pcb

Longfuse wrote:

Is the toner in laser printers opaque enough to block out UV light IF used with a laser transparency bought from a stationers, OR does the film have to be ‘special’ in order for it to work with photo board, i.e. does one HAVE to use the transparencies sold by electronics suppliers?

Click to expand...

Talking about this with a friend,- who is working in the books and magazzines printing field - he recommend me to use a product very ussual for them namelly called "darker", don´t know the chemical inside but after print an art-work in transparency with ANY laser printer, just a soft spray with this product in the inkked face and "voillá" !!! Full opaque traces "magically darked". :idea: :idea: :idea:
Don´t find it in electronic shops, find it in warehouses regarding printing houses suppliers. :wink:

best wishes !!!

humber555

laser printer pcb brother

What type of coated paper do you mean ?

Is that the paper for inkjet printers ?

Is the paper for injet printers appropriate also for laser printers ?

:?:

transparency laser pcb

Hi Mipas,

Yes, the coated paper for inkjets works in lasers (at least mine). Coated paper means that it is coated with a very fine layer of clay powder - this makes the paper smoother (no paper grain). It also allows the toner to be removed as it is not actually bonded to the paper, just the clay.

Note that many coated papers are only coated on one side, you must print on this coated side, otherwise it will not work.

I have had mixed results with this method - it is OK for big traces and wide gaps, but for my 0.5mm-pitch TQFP's, it is useless.

Cheers,
FoxyRick.

contrast of laser printed artwork on (tracing) paper can be essentialy improved by virture of e.g. toluene vapors.
Then is easy to do 10 mil traces and 10 mil spaces.

UV spray is needless and simple NaOH is enough.

pool_77

pool_77 said:

contrast of laser printed artwork on (tracing) paper can be essentialy improved by virture of e.g. toluene vapors.
Then is easy to do 10 mil traces and 10 mil spaces.
pool_77

Click to expand...

What kind of substance do you use to get these vapors? Paint thinner or something like that?

I buy toluene from a laboratory suppliers - it's my job. I've never used it for this though... I'll have to give it a try. Xylene may be similar. You might find them at a hardware store.

Read this though...

Toluene (also known as toluol or methylbenzene) and xylene (also known as xylol or dimethylbenzene) are aromatic hydrocarbons found around the home in paints, paint and varnish removers, degreasers, cleaners, lacquers, glues, nail polish, and cement. Because of their excellent ability to dissolve substances, they are often used in insecticides and other pesticides to dissolve the active ingredient. Toluene and xylene are volatile, flammable, and toxic.

Toluene and xylene are irritating to the skin and respiratory tract and may cause liver damage. These aromatic hydrocarbons enter your system through inhalation and ingestion, but are poorly absorbed by the skin. The target organs attacked by toluene and xylene are the central nervous system, eyes, liver, kidneys, and skin. Toluene and xylene are narcotic in high concentrations. Intentional inhaling of these substances can cause headache, giddiness, and a transient euphoria followed by depression. Hallucinations may occur, especially following chronic exposure. Neurological damage occurs from concentrated inhalation of these fumes. Symptoms include fatigue, weakness, confusion, headache, tearing, nervousness, muscular fatigue, insomnia, dermatitis, an intolerance of light.

Cheers,
FoxyRick.

mipas said:

What type of coated paper do you mean ?

Is that the paper for inkjet printers ?

Is the paper for injet printers appropriate also for laser printers ?

:?:

Click to expand...

Coated paper is for higher resolution printing, I use the HP premium paper. You can get it at most stationary stores, and is actually meant for inkjet printers. But Yes, you can use it in lazer printers. It is relatively inexpensive and can really improve the time from artwork to PCB. It is really well worth trying. If you try it and have some problems, post me and I'll help. Since I have started using this way, I have never bothered with Pos20 or exposure and all that. This is a simple and fast way. You can even use normal paper for lazer printers, but it is not as good as the coated paper. When you peel the paper of the board, normal paper leave some of the wood fibre behind which is more work to remove so as to get nice sharp track edges. Try it!!

Hi FoxyRick,

Did you transfer the toner with acetone on your boards? I have done artwork for 80p TSOP package this way, tracks of even 0.1mm no problem. The Iron on method gives lots of problems with thinner tracks.
And the water soaking is also important.

Regards,
Whacko